In game languages

[Dilphemor]

I like the flavour a few words can add to a conversation. That said, however, I would find it amusing to see a group of snobby enki sitting in the Kada-El conversing quietly amongst themselves in pure Enkidukai.

* Dilphemor chuckles to himself, "C'mon, there aren't ANY snobby Enki in the entire realm" 

*edit*

In most cases where I've seen Enki use their own tongue, it's typically been the odd line here and there... and most commonly.. as a greeting or a farewell.

I've also noticed that Peacer, Siofra and others often post the english translation (in brackets) along with it when there are others around who are unlikely to know that particular language being spoken.  Thankfully

Still.. I'm going to try to remember some of the words and phrases... just so my Enki can be more Enki-like.

I like to use some basic phrases, such as greetings, farewells and thanks, in conversation with others.  However, I prefer not to bracket the translation.  I feel it's more realistic if the other character says, "I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you said."  Then I apologize and translate it for them."  I think this resembles a RL conversation more than it would to say something in my native tongue and immediately say the translation without some sort of indication from the listener that they didn't understand me.

I think the use of basic phrases by the various races during conversation with each other is a great thing.  It's no different than the manner in which some phrases cross cultural lines IRL.  I'm not Hispanic, Japanese or German, but I know several basic phrases and words in each of those languages.  I learned them by talking with people of those cultures.

So it is in PS.  So many races interacting in Hydlaa and Ojaveda.  There is bound to be some instance of us learning bits and pieces of each other's languages.  I completely agree with others that it adds to the RP experience and I enjoy it.

[Irri]

Here's the lineage of our phrase collection

I saw Moogie's post mentioning language when I was looking to learn more about Enkidukai culture and society, and I sent them a PM. Moogie had a list of Enki phrases that Darkmoon had compiled from NPCs, and sent it to me. I have since then shared it with other Enkidukai players, and I assume they are passing it along to others...


We like finding the words enough that when the new archaeologist fenki NPC turned up at the BD waterfall, one of us made a trip out there to see if she might have new words for us to discover!

[Eagel]

[IC]
Grrensholo, tabeieti!
Mo dhorreti ento dhorretolo siino tonphrren.

That's why I have to speak Yliakum language.
My mother always told us about Ancients Enkidukai and frequently spoked that dhorreth.
She always was singing some Enkidukai songs.

Ashreto-de noti venna dhorreth!
Farewell now... Bon shrdah!

[OOC]
Ok, I suppouse that "my friends" could be "tabeieti" since there's no sintactical rules. 

I would like to improve the enkidukai language... and maybe write some sintactical and semantical rules
Somebody to join this project?
Or should I say... Can I start a project like this? 

Imagine possibilities... a drunken Enki raising from his chair at Kada-El with a mug of beer in his paw, singing an enki song, and many others joining in!!
I respect that english is official language of Yliakum and must be talked by all gamers, but I think that an Enki language will improve RPing (the same for dwarf, elvish, and other races languages)

[Arka]

Do it Eagel.

I have had great fun developing the grammar around Stonebreaker and teaching it to others. If you want to take a look at what I've done so far, drop me a PM and I'll happily share ideas with you.

Arka

[Einnol]

I find this topic absolutely fascinating and exciting.  I think in-game 'race' languages are a huge boost to RP and add a lot of depth and immersion.

As some are already aware, I have been an avid student of Arka's Stonebreaker language for about 11 months now and even chose a Pel Perrakithor name for the guild that was handed down to me.  My character and I have both been learning the language at the same pace.  From my character's perspective, he grew up with parents that basically sold their wares to the general public and spoke only the normal 'common tongue'.  Combined with the fact that Arka's Stonebreaker was almost 'lost to history', he was never exposed to it until after meeting Arka and learning of her research.  So, learning it now is his way of 'getting in touch with his roots' so to speak.  Although my guild may have a Stonebreaker name, one of the main beliefs of it is that there is something worthy about all races and their cultures (including their languages).  While my character is very proud of his Stonebreaker heritage (and language, of course), he is very interested and open to the cultures, beliefs and languages of other races as well (as am I as a player).  We are both very interested in learning more about the Enki language that Darkmoon is working so hard to develop.  Cheers to Darkmoon.   

I don't see in-game languages as a way of excluding players or characters, but rather as a tool for immersing myself deeper into RP.  If I use Stonebreaker, I am always willing to translate if someone does not understand.  I am not sure if Peacer's OOC translation is the best way solution, tho.  Although technically the player would understand, our character still may not understand what was said.  I will often just state something in Stonebreaker with the translation right after (both IC).  It makes sense to me that way because not only is my character reinforcing what he is learning by stating it in both languages, he is also being considerate to other characters who may not speak it or speak it well.  Furthermore, I see it as a possibility that when learning a new language, you may just say something in that language without realizing it.  So, along that line, I will occasionally purposely throw out a Stonebreaker phrase (usually when with others that I RP with frequently).  Often this provokes a 'Pardon me?' type of response to which my character will respond with 'Oh.  Sorry.  <translation>.'

While everyone might not have the time, will, or ambition to learn even one race language completely, most can probably pick up on a few basic greetings such as 'Hello' and 'How are you?' fairly easily.  And for those that have the desire to learn and incorporate it into their characters, they can enjoy it, share it with others and provide a translation.  So, I see no harm in that.

[Arka]

Has it been 11 months already?! 

It's no wonder I never have time for anything else

Well said Einnol.
It's about time we opened up the Stonebreaker course more widely (11 months is probably long enough as a pilot).

On a slightly different tack I find it interesting that we are having this debate. There has always been a battle to support and preserve 'minority' languages - almost every time you find a dominant culture you find minority languages being supressed. This includes the English banning Irish and Welsh, and the americans banning French being spoken in Southern states. IMHO it's a sign of maturity when a state accepts its minority cultures and starts to acccept, support and promote minority languages. Maybe one day we will see a Stonebreaker village with street signs written in Pel Perrakithor and Shop signs in Akkaio written in Enki? Who knows? I, for one would welcome that.

Arka

[Nurahk]

the first one to use an in game language. (I think.)

Believe that would be Elkindel(sp?) made a whole Enkidukai language...Was quite fun.  Made him make one of my character's name mean "Great One"

And then somebody else also made one, though I never say her use it ingame.


I do find it interesting that made up languages are alright in public chat whereas french and german are unwelcome...but that is just crazy me

[Karyuu]

Elk and I played around with Enkidukai tongues specific to our tribes. His was quite rich, and he loved to use it whenever possible :]

The difference with "made-up" languages is that they are specific to this game and to the setting, not influenced by OOC nationalities.

[Eagel]

Something its true... a common tongue to EVERYBODY is english.
Other languages like french, german, italian or spanish (in my case) are out for IC and OOC.
I agree about making a group with other spanish player's (for example) and chat in the group channel, but in main, tell, even guild channels must be english.

I think that languages in-game like Enki, Stonebreaker, elvish, etc... should be accepted not as a common tongue, but as a way to sprinkle a conversation with some words or phrases. Sometimes it's hard to me to tell or say something in english, because its not my primary language, but I try.. I use a traslation dictionary for.
I will do the same if I could improve an enki tongue... that's why I asked Darkmoon (in PM) if I can start a project like this. Take his work and continue to make some grammar rules and sent the basis for an enki language.

*Eagel takes his notebook and write some words in it*
Tresshalnolo, mo tabei... Aralost nofsa bishnahg...
Patience, my friend... all things in time

[Shooree]

Hi

We here at the Felines Lair have been in possesion of the aforementioned phrase list for some time now. Our efforts to expand on it have been futile so far, though, due to the obvious lack of gramatical underpinning available. This new addition promises to expand our knowledge and ability to study the language further, a prospect our guild is overjoyed with.
Felines Lair will, for the time being, officially stay neutral in the debate concerning whether or not and/or how much should "other" languages be used in regular conversation. Our only goal at the time of writing this is to join forces with other devoted individuals/organizations for the purpose of establishing a workgroup that will concern itself with the study of the Enki language. Of course, all this pending Darkmoon's blessing.

It is my personal view that this community has enough talent, skill and will to develop any racial langague into an RP boon. The one thing we need is unity and a set up system. Now, Darkmoon has been working on this for quite some time now and even though the language he made cannot be considered his property anymore (not trying to be legal here, just pointing out that now that people start learning it, he cannot take it away from them, technically), I sincerely hope that he will be willing to accept input from the community. Also, it is my view that he should be the ultimate censor and have the first and final say in matters of organizing this would-be activity group. 

Thank you for your time.

[Eagel]

It is my personal view that this community has enough talent, skill and will to develop any racial langague into an RP boon. The one thing we need is unity and a set up system. Now, Darkmoon has been working on this for quite some time now and even though the language he made cannot be considered his property anymore (not trying to be legal here, just pointing out that now that people start learning it, he cannot take it away from them, technically), I sincerely hope that he will be willing to accept input from the community. Also, it is my view that he should be the ultimate censor and have the first and final say in matters of organizing this would-be activity group. 

I agree with that...
If Darkmoon bless our intentions, we can start building up a small workgroup open to anyone who wishes to join.
Thanks for your time, all of you, mo tabei. 

[Shooree]

Hm.
See, I sort of disagree with you on that one. Call me elitist (as many of my friends do) if you will, but I think it's just reasonable for the group to consist of carefully chosen members. Naturally, the one who should decide on who joins in and whether the group is formed at all is Darkmoon. I suggest a system of applications for membership to be set, by i.e. PMs with work done so far, sent to him for evaluation or whatever. Just a thought. I support this view, because I strongly believe that a big (over 5-7 people) group is able to lay uniform and believeable gramatical foundation. Afterewards, when the time comes for expanding the dictionary and whatnot, the more the merrier, I believe.
Now, I usually get accused of taking play too seriously. This just might be another case of my myopia and disregard for the "fun factor", whatever that may be.

Just my two trias.

[Arka]

Just a small contribution at this stage.

If you do form a group, use it for testing out the laguage and exposing its weaknesses. Don't try to write the language as a a group - better this is done by one or two people working very closely together - otherwise what you come up will lack integrity. Everyone will have different ideas about structure and the roots of vocabulary. If you try and create the language democratically you will end up with a mish-mush of different concepts.

Having the langauge designers answer difficult questions and correct inconsistencies is IMHO the best way forward. Hard questions will produce good results (I have Einnol to thank for that!)

That having been said, I would be happy to be involved as a tester.

Arka

[Shooree]

Yes, fantastic. I fully agree. We should not strive to join Darkmoon as the creators, but offer him our services in being the guinea-erm.. cats? instead.

Felines Lair, for one, is an exclusively Enkidukai guild, and it has me as the one responsible for things scholarly. We would be more than happy to provide manpower for this task, in addtion to all the good people here.

Cheers.

[Seytra]

Just be careful that these languages don't lead to separation instead of cooperation. That there are race-only guilds, that there is race-specific architecture, that there are race-dominated cities already is bad enough, and it may easily boost a separation of races that clashes violently with the settings.
I'd not want separated races, nor do I think that the original languages would still be in use today (i.e., similar to the Stonebreaker tongue mentioned). And last but not least, I'd not want to be forced to learn a language in order to play a character, as stated.

BTW, I don't think that you would accidentally be saying somethiong in a language that you are just learning. This sort of thing only happens when you have already more or less mastered the language, and have been actively using it more or less exclusively for an extended period, because otherwise you'll still be thinking in your native language, and switching takes effort, which doesn't occur accidentally, at least not for talking. It didn't ever happen to me, anyway, and I think my english is comparatively good.