POLICE brutality at UCLA, STUN a student who is HANDCUFFED!!!

[Nyramael]

I hope you all don't mind if i start talking about the taser. To me it seems like the source of the problem here. It's a truly evil weapon in thought and implementation. Our limbs move  through contractions of muscles through electric impuleses to them from our nerves and brain. The Taser basically sends an oscillating signal that overloads the nerves. The end result is that the muscle contracts and relaxes much more vigourously than it everywould naturally in an incredibly painful way - not to mention the pontential damage to organs.

Whatever happened to the good old night stick and hand cuffs? There things people can relate to. Big heavy thick black stick equals pain. pointing a taser at someone will threaten them, but it's not exaclty something people can associate as pain - unless they've been tasered before. Do we want a society living in fear of the police force? In Australia where i live the police are meant to be approachable for conflict resolution - we've had out of uniform officers just visit our school to talk to students about issues and other stuff!

I've never been to the states so i have no idea what the culture is like there. The image that eventually gets to me is that america is generally a nice place to be, but if you're not a stereotypical/majority/caucasian you can't expect everything to go smoothly.

I'm just an 18 year old sub-continental male with an afro and i'm not exactly lightly built. I've recieved quite a few odd glances from time to time when i'm about - i assume people either just look at me cause they normally don't see a guy like me floatiing around, or worse they assume i'm trouble . I'd love to see a world where people are just accepted for what they are, and if they're not causing any trouble they're just left in peace. Perhaps i'm still filled with kid-ish ideas for peace.

It seems we keep going back to governments and authorities in this thread and ideas about distribution of power and it's (mis)use. I don't think i've seen a single leadership system that works thoroughly. They all have problems.  

Not america though, we don't have enough checks and balances, i think maybe power should be divided 10 ways.

1) Make laws 2) Explain Laws 3) Enforce laws 4) Check to see if it Matches the Constitution 5) Change salaries 6) Economic Infrustructure

7) house of War and Peace, foreign Affairs  8 ) house of Government reform  9) Socialistic house of wealth to the needy 10) Oversight on all houses.

Something like that would be very tricky.
Also i do not believe in a Representative Government, Currently we have the Technology to host DIRECT ELECTIONS.
I want Pure democracy, No more of this representative Nonsense.

That's actually a nice idea and I'm very much against this representitive business. It over complicates things and eventually distances the people from the discision making. I'd really like to hear more about these ideas for the ideal government…

[zanzibar]

Consider yourself a rebel and that "police is bad uuu! / let's break the laws they suck!" and add another one on that huge list of names who's helping the world to slowly fall apart.

The student who was tasered did not break any laws.

I live in Romania (which is a democracy)

Romania isn't exactly a democracy yet - not in the same sense as other democratic nations.  Your nation still has a lot of work to do in terms of fighting authoritarianism and oppression, not to mention religious intolerance.  It's headed in that direction though.

[Annah]

Ha? Get real Zanzibar, the revolution began and ended in '89. Romania IS a democracy. Oppression? That's funny. You talk about Romania like a "new born" country, from the 18th century. We're almost in 2007 for god's sake, we're the typical modern European country.

Religious intolerance? What the hell, don't speak when you don't know certain things.

[zanzibar]

Ha? Get real Zanzibar, the revolution began and ended in '89. Romania IS a democracy. Oppression? That's funny. You talk about Romania like a "new born" country, from the 18th century. We're almost in 2007 for god's sake, we're the typical modern European country.

Religious intolerance? What the hell, don't speak when you don't know certain things.

It doesn't work that way.  You aren't a fascist state one moment and then a democracy the next.  These things take time, and Romania isn't finished yet.

And yes, there is a lot of religious intolerance in Romania, largely due to the Orthodox church and especially directed towards Jews and Gypsies.  Do you want to argue about it?

[Annah]

Actually yeah, I do. Romania is an orthodox country yes, that's the way it was even before the revolution. Jews are very few in here, same like any other communities. And along with gypsies, they're minorities, which don't influence in any way our country, neither political nor religious.

And from '89, Romania had 18 years to "evolve" on the right track, and it did. And like I also said earlier, I do agree with some ideas communism brought, let's not forget WHO was Romania before '89 as well, an important country I have to say, even from the times it was a monarchy.

[bilbous]

fascism

   1. A political regime based on strong centralized government, suppressing through violence any criticism or opposition of the regime, and exalting nation, state, or religion above the individual.
   2. A system of strong autocracy

Sounds like the Dubya administration to me. You will find many members listed here: Project for the New American Century exalting Americas place in the world. Their various gulags (gitmo and secret prisons around the world), their "with us or against us" mentality and their base pandering to the Christian right go to further attest to the aptness of the appellation.

Just goes to show that fascists can be democrats and vigilance is always required. America is a great country, it is just going through some dark times right now most of which can be traced back to the doings of its own. It has a tendency to act as if things happen in a vaccuum and neglect to consider the consequences of history.

[Datruth]

I think what Zanzibar is talking about is, De facto and De Juro, 2 very valid topics here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_jure

Basically, you can make laws and become a Democracy, and still have people hate Gypsies and jews and so forth.
Or you can have laws Against Gypsies, but have the people love them.

In the first case, the Government has reformed itself but the majority of people haven't.
In the second case the People have reformed themselves but the government laws haven't.

I haven't studied the situation so i'm not sure if Zanzibar is right, Or if Annah is right.

What i do know is 100 years after we freed the blacks, we still have racism and still have racial profiling.
So it does take a loong time for these things to change. I'd have to say, The irish are now Fully integrated into America.


And with tazers, i have to agree, The more i've been reading about them, the more they scare me.

Teenagers, it seems, have been getting shot with them many time, as well as the elderly.

In both cases severe mental and physical trauma occurs.

If i had a say, i'd Get rid of all Tasers, they are too dangerous, in my mind.

I've also looked into getting rid of bullets, and replacing them with rubber bullets, so suspects never die.

Rubber bullets, i've read, hurt very much, and should immobalize the assailant very quickly.

~~Datruth

*edit*

fascism

   1. A political regime based on strong centralized government, suppressing through violence any criticism or opposition of the regime, and exalting nation, state, or religion above the individual.
   2. A system of strong autocracy

Sounds like the Dubya administration to me. You will find many members listed here: Project for the New American Century exalting Americas place in the world. Their various gulags (gitmo and secret prisons around the world), their "with us or against us" mentality and their base pandering to the Christian right go to further attest to the aptness of the appellation.

Just goes to show that fascists can be democrats and vigilance is always required. America is a great country, it is just going through some dark times right now most of which can be traced back to the doings of its own. It has a tendency to act as if things happen in a vaccuum and neglect to consider the consequences of history.

Bilbo, the reason we look fascist right now is because We had a fascist Government.

We had people who believed in Fascist Ideas.

They openly admitted it to, but they never used the word, "fascist" they have adopted a new word.

Do a google search on, "NEo Conservatives" or Neocons.

They are America's Fascist, they believe in a STrong Centralized Government that can do what it wishes, regardless of congress or the people.

Neocons are the filthiest things to come to America since the KKK.

~~Datruth

[Annah]

I haven't studied the situation so i'm not sure if Zanzibar is right, Or if Annah is right.

I live here.

[Datruth]

I haven't studied the situation so i'm not sure if Zanzibar is right, Or if Annah is right.

I live here.

Lol, true, but romania isn't a small country.



I live in America, and others sometimes know much more about it than eye.

But i have to admit, If he says he's not being oppressed, Zanz might have to change his statements to oppression only occurs in this area, Or there is no Oppression.

Annah being there allows him to see first hand, the actions of the government.

~~Datruth

[Annah]

Indeed, Romania is not a small country. But I know 3/4 of it like the back of my hand. I live in Bucharest by the way.

Annah being there allows him to see first hand, the actions of the government.

True.

[bilbous]

It is a little smaller than wyoming, if it was square it would be a little more than 300 miles (488K) on a side. It is 82nd on Wikipedia's List of countries by area. I'm pretty sure a native would have a good idea of what goes on in it and the surrounding contries too.

[zanzibar]

Annah, I'm afraid that you're wrong.  Very, very wrong.

It was only three years ago that the Romanian government made a statement denying the Holocaust of Romanian Jews during World War two.  Yes, that's right.  Only three years ago - June 12, 2003.  And you want to tell me that anti-semetism isn't a problem in Romania?  The reason why there are so few Jewish people in Romania is the same reason there are so few Jewish people in Poland - they were all murdered.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/06/14/wrom14.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/06/14/ixportal.html


Annah, are you saying that in Romania, Gypsies are not all painted as theives, and that non-Orthodox Christians aren't seen as damned?  And what protections do women have from harassment in the workplace?  What about the huge problem of the human trafficing of sex slaves from Romania?  Is this indicative of a democratic society?

[Annah]

You're either 12 years old, either you don't know anything about Romania, either retarded. Excuse my language, but yes, I do feel offended when someone speaks about a country he knows nothing.

Gypsies? Thieves? Where the hell do you think we are, in the woods? We have the same criminal activity as any other country which shouts it's based on a democratic system. The non-Orthodox Christians are seen as damned? Again, what the hell do you think Romanians are, a part of a cult or something? Enlarge your horizons kiddo.

About the women which are harassed at work, yeah, maybe there was a case 5 years ago. But look, there's one in the United States as well! Women, men, they're both equally treated, both at work and outside.

As for the human slavery, go to Spain, go to Italy, and after shut up.

[zanzibar]

Annah, you ignored the bit about the Romanian Government denying the Romanian Holocaust.

You're either 12 years old, either you don't know anything about Romania, either retarded. Excuse my language, but yes, I do feel offended when someone speaks about a country he knows nothing.

I seem to know a thing or two that you do not.

Gypsies? Thieves? Where the hell do you think we are, in the woods? We have the same criminal activity as any other country which shouts it's based on a democratic system.

I meant that Gypsies are falsely painted as thieves by Romanian society.

About the women which are harassed at work, yeah, maybe there was a case 5 years ago. But look, there's one in the United States as well! Women, men, they're both equally treated, both at work and outside.

I don't think you understood me.  What I meant was that women do not have the rights in Romania that they do in the United States - you can get away with things in Romania that you would be sued for if you tried them in the United States.

As for the human slavery, go to Spain, go to Italy, and after shut up.

I don't think I understand you.  Are you saying that Spain and Italy are as bad as Romania for human trafficing?  Many sex slaves end up in Western Europe and the USA, but they mostly come from places such as Romania, Asia, and parts of Africa - anywhere there are impoverished people.

[Goldir]

I miss Asia.  If a college student gets mouthy and uncooperative with the cops there they just beat him and spray him with the fire hose.  Gets the point across about the whole "When dealing with the authorities, remember they have the AUTHORITY" thing.  Civil Disobedience is still Disobedience. (quote from maddox.xmission.com)