POLICE brutality at UCLA, STUN a student who is HANDCUFFED!!!

[Xordan]

It's a bit hard when you're basically being electrocuted to keep a cool head and not scream and shout in pain. Being tazered hurts a lot, more than being shot. The guy probably can't do anything about it, as he should have just cooperated before any of it really started, but he was treated... well worse than a criminal. One tazer hit is enough. Although saying that, the USA's treatment of criminals is barely civilized anyway.

[zanzibar]

*Matt, with a very awake little man on his shoulder.*

Amazing, isn't it? Whether something is a big deal or not to someone all depends on how much they can relate to it.

The poor kid was tasered half a dozen times by cops for no good reason.  I think that's a pretty big deal.


@WiseKran:  You're completely out to lunch.

He showed no respect for authority, and refused to comply with their orders. he got the tazer, he then continued to be obstinate, and not follow orders, he got tazered again.

They asked him to leave, and they tasered him on his way out.  They told him to stand up, but he couldn't because he had just been tasered.  He did everything he could to comply with them.

IMHO it was a F'ed up situation from the start, however once Mr. Tabatabainejad was in cuffs there was no need whatsoever to tase him again and again. He was endagering no one, he was not trying to encite a riot as many have proclaimed. Passive-Agressive protest are no reason for tasing, there were enough officers there to just pick him up and remove him from the building and put him in one of the four cruisers outside.

His "resistance" was entirely passive, not passive-aggressive.  There was never a need to taser him.

It doesn't help that they tasered him for not standing up, which was impossible since he had just been tasered.  You can't stand up after you're tasered, it's physically impossible.

The threatening of other students asking for badge numbers and names was also a big NO-NO. An officer cannot threaten violence for a request for identification, a warning of arrest would have been more appropriate to the situation.

It's not just a no-no, it's illegal.

[Under the moon]

On the mentality of police:

There are two types of people that want to be police. Type A are the people that actually want to help make the world a better place. Yes, they can mess up just as much as the rest of us, and sometimes do. In the heat of the moment, everyone has rash and unintelligent reactions.

Now for the type B people. Bullies, pure and simple. They join the force for the power trip by way of forcing others to 'respect' them. They are often not as intelligent as others, and don't really care about what others think. They are the police, hear them roar. If you do not show them the 'respect' that they 'deserve', you become public enemy number one. They will go out of their way to show you that they are top dog.

I believe this incident was due to type B police, or possibly just one. But once that one B person started going over the line, group "protect your own" mentality took over, and the others were forced to follow. It is an unwritten police code that you back each other up in public no matter what, even if wrong.

Respect is earned, not taken. Just because you have a badge, and 'think' the law is on your side, it does not give you the 'right' of respect. You would be surprised to know how many cops out there -don't- know the laws, and just go by what they -think- the laws should be. As such, they do not inspire respect, but an emotion that looks similar from the outside. Fear.

If that guy had a heart condition, or even a pacemaker, he would likely be dead right now. Is 'respect' worth that price?

This is why I do not trust the police. I also thing Wisekran would make a great type B. There is no law against insulting the police (that I know of), as long as it is your opinion. Come to my place, Mr. 'Wise' and let me taze you, or stab you in the foot for reasons you do not think are called for, and lets see how many obscenities you can bite back.

[WiseKran]

the USA's treatment of criminals is barely civilized anyway.

This is clearly the chop logic of a left wing liberal.

I suppose we should pamper our criminals...



Don't you know that in other countries that have more strict law systems, the crime rate is substantially lower?

In the US, if you key someones car, you go to court, pay a fine.
How it should be: Key someones car, get caned in public, if you steal then they remove your hand.

If justice was like that, there would be no crime.

Now im not saying we have to be that extreme, But im saying that things are getting soft these days. Theres no room for people like that student who think they are even with the law. And its certainly rediculous to blame the police for doing their job, however heavy handed it may seem.

[neko kyouran]

An eye for an eye...

makes the whole world go blind.

[Monketh]

WiseKran, that's what the terrorists do.  If we were to do that we'd be no better than them.  Not to mention that most other civilized countries in the world have a substantially lower per-capita prison population.  Why?  Because their inmates usually don't boomerang back.  Chop liberal logic?  Hardly; I call it caring pragmatic realism.
"You screwed up, time to beat the living ___ out of you!" is not conducive to improving behavior.  I breeds contempt, hatred, fear.  It's useless and below useless.  Only those who are impossible to reform should be given the harshest of treatments.  ...and don't forget the number of innocents.  I'm sure you have some enemies that would love to see you without a hand.

Typical Right-Wing hatred BS.  Independent centrism is the only reasonable path.  Labeling your opponents' ideas is actually a mental protection mechanism to keep you from changing your opinion.

[zanzibar]

If that guy had a heart condition, or even a pacemaker, he would likely be dead right now. Is 'respect' worth that price?

I think it's possible that the student had autism.  That would explain why being touched was such a big deal.

This is why I do not trust the police. I also thing Wisekran would make a great type B. There is no law against insulting the police (that I know of), as long as it is your opinion. Come to my place, Mr. 'Wise' and let me taze you, or stab you in the foot for reasons you do not think are called for, and lets see how many obscenities you can bite back.

I think you're being a bit harsh, but I find it hard to disagree.  I want to keep an open mind and say that WiseKran might not really mean what he said - it's likely he was just trying to provoke a reaction out of anyone who has a heart.





@WiseKran:  Your position is baseless because no crimes were ever committed - except by the police officers.

[WiseKran]

I went off subject.

But here is my bottom line.

My honest opinion on this subject is this:

    The video does not make clear the events leading up to the tazering, But It is assumed that the student was giving the police a hard time. He didn't comply with their demands, he got tazered.

    I believe the first time he got hit with it, it was warranted. The rest was a a bit out of control, But I find the student to be more wrong, because of that fact that he made a big deal about leaving the library because he Didn't have his ID.

No, it was not necessary to use the stun gun on him that many times, But neither was it necessary for the Student to be so obstinate.  I find both parties to be wrong, but the Police are the lesser of two evils to me

 I am not a "Type B" person in life, but I do have a strong respect for the law, and the government. I am a republican, and I would say I have an almost militaristic sense of justice. I don't want to see criminals, or in this case, this student punished or brutalized merely to put myself on top. But I would deal with cases like this harshly, because he obviously has no respect for rules, or authority.

[zanzibar]

    The video does not make clear the events leading up to the tazering, But It is assumed that the student was giving the police a hard time. He didn't comply with their demands, he got tazered.

The police were only called in much later on.  This is the picture, the order of events, that I have from all the reading I've done:

- the student was asked for his ID card "at random" by rentacops
- the student refused, saying that he was the victim of ethnic profiling
- the rentacops called in the real cops
- the student agreed to leave
- on his way out, the student was tasered by the cops

I believe the first time he got hit with it, it was warranted. The rest was a a bit out of control, But I find the student to be more wrong, because of that fact that he made a big deal about leaving the library because he Didn't have his ID.

No, my friend.  It's the cops who made a big deal about him not having his ID.  Also, he was not obstinate.  He agreed to leave.  He didn't resist them.  He did everything they asked.  He was compliant but they beat his rear end anyway.  They could have killed him.




The police are the greater evil because I hold them to a higher standard.  They have been put into a position of authority and power, and therefore we should set higher expectations for them.  There will always be idiots on the street, but cops are employed by the government to ensure our safety.  Therefore they are most definately the greater of the two evils.

[WiseKran]

It isn't as simple as, he was tazered as he was walking out.

He was yelling for the cops to get their hands off of him, he obviously wanted to leave without them as an escort.  If he didn't continually shout "Don't touch me!" he would have left uninhibited.


But the rest of what you said does make sense, besides the fact that there is more to the students opposition than you reveal.

He agreed to leave.  He didn't resist them.

He refused to let the police touch him, as they were probably going to walk him out of the library.

[bilbous]

It seems to me that touching someone without their permission is technically assault. Actually, calling someone a big fat poopy-head is also technically assault. Now the police have the right to apprehend people when neccessary but if the student was complying with the order to leave then there was no need.  The police are supposed to use discretion in the application of force and it appears they did not in this case.

[zanzibar]

It isn't as simple as, he was tazered as he was walking out.

He was yelling for the cops to get their hands off of him, he obviously wanted to leave without them as an escort.  If he didn't continually shout "Don't touch me!" he would have left uninhibited.

Manhandling someone is not escorting them.  Even then, there's no reason for a police officer to grab/assault someone unless their intent is to subdue that person.  The cop was out of line from the start.  Plus, it's possible that the student's "medical condition" made being touched a big deal.

But the rest of what you said does make sense, besides the fact that there is more to the students opposition than you reveal.

The fact?  Let's hear some examples.  He claimed he was the victim of racial profiling, then he agreed to leave.  He was assaulted as he left.

He agreed to leave.  He didn't resist them.

He refused to let the police touch him, as they were probably going to walk him out of the library.

You're so full of it.

[iceddragons]

You're so full of it.

How true. Then again, who isn't a little full of themselves? Certainly neither of us

[zanzibar]

You're so full of it.

How true. Then again, who isn't a little full of themselves? Certainly neither of us

Dumb question:  Are you WiseKran under a different moniker?


By "full of it", I mean that the statements WiseKran made are self-evidently ludacris and they have been shown to be ludacris already by early posts within this thread.

[Phinehas]

Wow. Zanzi, and you almost had me agreeing there, till you went off the deep end and made everything personal.

For the record, I agree with the idea that the police should be held to a higher standard because they have more authority. I'm not saying that the student acted right, but the police didn't handle it right, either.

I'm still of the opinion, though, that this doesn't warrant any more shock than the hundreds of similar things going on all over the world any day. I'm not any more apalled at it than I am at what happens in other countries, so don't expect me to jump up and down and shout.