POLICE brutality at UCLA, STUN a student who is HANDCUFFED!!!

[Xordan]

the USA's treatment of criminals is barely civilized anyway.

This is clearly the chop logic of a left wing liberal.

I suppose we should pamper our criminals...

Not at all, I'm quite conservative. But compared to countries.. let's say in the EU, the USA is quite uncivilized (death penalty for one thing). Also the fact that most people convicted in the USA are treated as guilty until proven innocent too. In this case, tough action is one thing, abuse is another, and this is definitely abuse. You don't 'kick ass' to get respect when you're the police. You should do the minimum physical damage possible. If you want the kind of action you described, then you'd have loved living in Nazi Germany. Modern day Iran is like that actually.

I'm still of the opinion, though, that this doesn't warrant any more shock than the hundreds of similar things going on all over the world any day. I'm not any more apalled at it than I am at what happens in other countries, so don't expect me to jump up and down and shout.

Agreed.

[WiseKran]

Well Im not going to go any further.

To do so would require research on the matter, and I dont care to spend the time. Not to mention what I bring to the table would most likely be dissected and used against me.

You know where I stand on the issue, and you most likely wont be able to change my mind.

[iceddragons]

Dumb question:  Are you WiseKran under a different moniker?

Yes, that is a dumb question, the answer of course being no.

Well Im not going to go any further.

To do so would require research on the matter, and I dont care to spend the time. Not to mention what I bring to the table would most likely be dissected and used against me.

You know where I stand on the issue, and you most likely wont be able to change my mind.

Yes, it seems that both of you are that way. Too much similarity with just the right wrong differences can cause seemingly endless arguments. I know, I am often in such arguments with one RL person I know and despise.

[Monketh]

"I'm not going to change my opinion and you can't make me."
Heh, but it probably is a wise time to get out of the thread, as he is apparently outnumbered by other competent opponents.

Just remember: sometimes "suck it up" and "respect authority" just don't cut it.

[WiseKran]

"I'm not going to change my opinion and you can't make me."
Heh, but it probably is a wise time to get out of the thread, as he is apparently outnumbered by other competent opponents.

Just remember: sometimes "suck it up" and "respect authority" just don't cut it.

I said "Most likely" wont be able to change my mind. there is a difference.

If something strikes me, Ill let you know.

But now is my time to step out, because its WiseKran vs. the rest of the Forum here. A Wise Kran knows when hes beat.

[LARAGORN]

I'm still of the opinion, though, that this doesn't warrant any more shock than the hundreds of similar things going on all over the world any day. I'm not any more apalled at it than I am at what happens in other countries, so don't expect me to jump up and down and shout.

Thats just it Phinehas, the majority of people have become desencetized (sp) and things of this nature go on without any public apeal for an investigation. The only reason this case has got the attension it has is because of the location, a multimedea savy population. Within hours this was spread around the web, gaining world wide attention.

[Phinehas]

Exactly, which is why I'm not going to get more hyped up about it just because the people who felt it the most can use the internet. I'm not happy about it, but I'm much more concerned about many other things happening all over the world that don't get as much attention.

[Uyaem]

Hehe, Datruth with that "omfglookiie!"-attitude you should work for The Sun or some equally bad gossip rag...
The info in the video is not even close to being complete, so meh.
A few people screwed up, someone got hurt, big deal. Yeah great it was the "authorities" but they make mistakes too, after all they are human. There were witnesses, there were people who know the whole story, the misbehaving people will most likely be dealt with accordingly, end of the drama.

Posting this reply was probably already too much time invested into the matter, for someone who wasn't involved directly.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing if people care, but opening the posting and getting slapped around by bold übersized caps... ah well that's just me maybe

PS: WiseKran, your ideals  and ideas of proper "punishment" are most shocking. Ruling by fear? No-no. Far too often people who share your opinion forget that those who actually cut people's hands off can be wrong, or corrupted. End of "paradise"...

[zanzibar]

Wow. Zanzi, and you almost had me agreeing there, till you went off the deep end and made everything personal.

For the record, I agree with the idea that the police should be held to a higher standard because they have more authority. I'm not saying that the student acted right, but the police didn't handle it right, either.

I'm still of the opinion, though, that this doesn't warrant any more shock than the hundreds of similar things going on all over the world any day. I'm not any more apalled at it than I am at what happens in other countries, so don't expect me to jump up and down and shout.

I don't believe that I've made things personal, nor have I gone "off the deep end".  And yes, bad things are happening in other parts of the world.



@Uyaem:  This person was tasered.  Tasered.  They could have killed him.  They tasered him over and over and over again, even though he was doing nothing wrong.  It was cruel.  It was wrong.

[Datruth]

Exactly, which is why I'm not going to get more hyped up about it just because the people who felt it the most can use the internet. I'm not happy about it, but I'm much more concerned about many other things happening all over the world that don't get as much attention.

Sorry phin to have to quote you like this.... but i thought it was important.
I agree that people have it worse outside this country.
But there's little we can do about it.

In this case, you have more power to change everything, Just imagine if you emailed everyone involed and told them they were wrong.
Just imagine that, and now imagine telling as many people as you can about this subject.
Change would occur, not overnight, but you need to make an impact.

Did you call your representative Phin? Did you call your senator? Write them? Get involved?

No? Then you've done a disservice to Your Brethren in America(with the assumption you live in America lol).

And yes, Don't Mess with People in SOCAL, We know how to call and use internet.
And we care when one of our own get's Abused.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Saying..."ohh worse things happen in the world" doesn't cut it.

This happened in the Free world, The U.S, a so called model for Democracy and Freedom.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WiseKran:

For the record, The kid didn't do anything illegal.
He wasn't even guilty of Resisting Arrest, as per the statement of a Judge.
HE cannot be tasered, for telling a cop to Get his hands off him.

People have been getting kicked out of libraries for years, now if you have a bad mouth, you get TAZERED!

That's illegal, but if you want that to be legalized, go lobby for it or something!

For the record, the cop grabbed his Shoulder, SO HE WASN'T ESCORTING HIM OUT!
THe student slid the cops hand off, said get off me, another cop grabbed his other shoulder, and Stunned him.
None of the Stuns were warranted.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What are the cops guilty of:

Police Brutality
Key word there is "brute", they acted just like them.

~~Datruth

[Karyuu]

Just imagine if you emailed everyone involed and told them they were wrong.

While I seriously and majorly sympathize with the kid in this situation, I don't think that emailing everyone involved and telling them that they are wrong does anything. Email you don't want to listen to = spam = deletion. It's that easy, and it doesn't change a damn thing.

Did you call your representative Phin? Did you call your senator? Write them? Get involved?

No? Then you've done a disservice to Your Brethren in America(with the assumption you live in America lol).

I don't think that just because some people don't involve themselves in some "political issues" means that they are doing a disservice to "Brethren in America," to be honest. That statement feels blown up. Yeah, it would be totally awesome if everyone was involved in everything and worked as one group towards a goal, but that just doesn't happen and there can be perfectly legitimate reasons. So before saying something like that, remember that not everyone is a diehard like you are and they have their rights to be

And yes, Don't Mess with People in SOCAL, We know how to call and use internet.
And we care when one of our own get's Abused.

I think people in every state or city care when one of their own gets abused. There's nothing special about southern California.

This happened in the Free world, The U.S, a so called model for Democracy and Freedom.

I have a fear you might get disillusioned pretty quick Utter crap has been going on in our country for generations, and is going on still as we speak. You also don't hear about every murder that gets committed, every rape that someone suffers, etc. More laws or stronger laws don't always prevent these things. People don't always follow laws, and there will never be any utopia in the world.

[Datruth]

I have a fear you might get disillusioned pretty quick  Utter crap has been going on in our country for generations, and is going on still as we speak. You also don't hear about every murder that gets committed, every rape that someone suffers, etc. More laws or stronger laws don't always prevent these things. People don't always follow laws, and there will never be any utopia in the world.

So yea, i see your point,  never say that America is better off than any another country.

This country, is better off than the rest, and when we think we've solved something (police brutality), sometimes it comes back and bites us in the butt.

You can't tell me you weren't surprised to hear a Student at UCLA got tasered by cops for no good reason.
That's shocking, You can't glaze that up, especially by saying, "bad things happen in America".

While I seriously and majorly sympathize with the kid in this situation, I don't think that emailing everyone involved and telling them that they are wrong does anything. Email you don't want to listen to = spam = deletion. It's that easy, and it doesn't change a damn thing.

As for my Email point, true probably won't solve anything, it shows intent though, imagine if no one emailed.
If no one emailed, then he wouldn't get a real sense of response. Whereas if everyone emailed, he'd have a flooded inbox.
That sends a message karyuu.

"I don't think that just because some people don't involve themselves in some "political issues" means that they are doing a disservice to "Brethren in America," to be honest. That statement feels blown up. Yeah, it would be totally awesome if everyone was involved in everything and worked as one group towards a goal, but that just doesn't happen and there can be perfectly legitimate reasons. So before saying something like that, remember that not everyone is a diehard like you are and they have their rights to be"

Yea i know what you mean, i was just urging Phin to go and do something about this.
He doesn't have to, and no one will hold him to it if he doesn't.
I hope it didn't seem like i was attacking his patriotism, for not helping, that wasn't my aim, it seemed as if you read it that way though.
Sorry if it was poorly phrased.

"I think people in every state or city care when one of their own gets abused. There's nothing special about southern California."

Uhh no..... If this had happened in Rural Alabama, or Arkansas, or something... .we probably would never hear about.
Everyone i've spoken with Agrees that because it was in Southern California, It created a HUGE UPROAR!
On Youtube, the Video became the second Most watched, Most  Discussed, and top Favorited yesterday.
There was a huge Outcry, although you wouldn't know it by watching the T.V.

Socal is very Techno savy, and this situation getting popular isn't a Coincidence.

~~Datruth

[Karyuu]

So yea, i see your point,  never say that America is better off than any another country.

Not at all - I was trying to say that America is not exempt from having brutalities. This country is not a sparkly, clean place. Definitely when comparing to some other places stark differences crop up, but there are other countries that outdo us by far in certain respects.

This country, is better off than the rest, and when we think we've solved something (police brutality), sometimes it comes back and bites us in the butt.

I don't think you can "solve" issues like that. As long as man is involved, and man's volatile nature, unpredictabilities abound. You can slap laws onto something, as I said, but people can always break them. You can never completely solve any problem when violence is the focal point.

You can't tell me you weren't surprised to hear a Student at UCLA got tasered by cops for no good reason.
That's shocking, You can't glaze that up, especially by saying, "bad things happen in America".

As Laragorn mentioned above, people become desensitized - the only reason I'm feeling something more about this happening in UCLA than some university in Arkansas is because I had a cousin graduate from there, so it has personal connections. I've also been to UCLA multiple times myself. It's hard to imagine something like that happening in a place you know, but beyond that - unfortunately there is no other shock. People abuse powers everywhere. Sometimes it happens here, sometimes there. The only sad thing is that it happens at all. Not where it happens.

Uhh no..... If this had happened in Rural Alabama, or Arkansas, or something... .we probably would never hear about.
Everyone i've spoken with Agrees that because it was in Southern California, It created a HUGE UPROAR!
On Youtube, the Video became the second Most watched, Most  Discussed, and top Favorited yesterday.
There was a huge Outcry, although you wouldn't know it by watching the T.V.

That's not what I was talking about though. I said that people in every state care when someone from around their parts gets abused somehow. Yes California is a progressive state in many ways, but I was replying to your "SOCAL spirit" thing more than anything else.

[Datruth]

ohh sorry for misunderstanding you on that last point karyuu.

You're right, people care in other states as well.

I think the reason why we disagree in most of these things is because I think Humans are born Good and are Good in general.

It is other Humans that are bad influences on us, that corrupts us.

I think you feel as if man is born evil. (correct me if i'm wrong)

I think a utopia is possible, all that's needed is for man to set a good example for each other.

It may sound strange, but if people stop the curroption they see around them, disaproove of the evil things, then eventually we will have a GReat world where problems would be very slim in number.

~~Datruth

[Karyuu]

I think you feel as if man is born evil. (correct me if i'm wrong)

I don't believe in "good and evil," and certainly not in such predestinations. What I believe in has been proven by our race since the dawn of our time - that we are violent and beautiful, and that we destroy as much as we create. You cannot eliminate all forms of violence - that is unnatural - although you can channel it. You are indeed correct when you say that we are molded by those around us, however:

I think a utopia is possible, all that's needed is for man to set a good example for each other.

To create a utopia you have to eliminate certain elements that make us human in the first place. A world without conflict is a world without growth. Every great writer and storyteller that has ever created a utopia has shared with us its ultimate downfall - its very lifelessness and inhumanity. Although I find it a very interesting subject, I think I'm pulling this to a tangent so I'll stop right now

Returning to the video: I couldn't watch the entire thing. Maybe it's just a matter of my own state of mind lately, but I was feeling sick after a couple of minutes. With so many witnesses however (and UCLA is certainly not lacking in a strong student body) I'm sure that something will be done about this incident, in one form of another.