English vs American spelling

[Malfini]

It means that American is closer to latin, not closer to English.

Zanzibar I don't think you understood what I was truly saying. I was saying that in most English words with the "our"/"or" differences the actual word in question was derived from a Latin word which used the "or" ending. Therefore it is philologically incorrect to use an "our" ending for those words.

*Edit*

Your post sorta implies that American English isn't English which could confuse people who are trying to learn English.

[Kalika]

oh jeez i jsut like to add "s" to almost everything ehehe 

[Xordan]

Actually, I disagree there. Words like Armour (Arm - err/urr) and Colour (Col - err/urr) are spelled like they sound. Armor (Arm - or)and Color (Col - or) aren't. Imo anyway. Maybe it's an accent thing.

It must be related to accent Xordan because I know for a fact that the way people pronounce color where I am would have to be spelled "color" or the sound of the word wouldn't match its spelling. The same thing also goes for armor.
I have to wonder though do you pronounce part of "colour" with the same sound as "our" as in "our shoes".

Umm no, we pronounce it as I said in my post. the our part of colour is said urr, or maybe urrgh. Not our, not or. Basically how it's supposed to be pronounced.

[Malfini]

I think the reason it may be spelled "color" in the United States is because that word was derived from Latin which used the "or" not "our" ending. England it seems just threw "our" at the end of words far too often. Noah Webster the man who made a very popular American English dictionary thought words should be more philologically correct. I know Webster also had many other reasons why he thought the spelling for many words should be changed though too. He also felt that a country should have control over its own language. I think he probably corrected a lot of errors that crept into English over time though.

From WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]:

  Noah Webster
       n : United States lexicographer (1758-1843) [syn: {Webster}]

[Xordan]

To me, the use of 'or' instead of 'our' changes the sound of the word and so it isn't the same thing (sounds worse to me) Also, English is descended from Norman French, (nearly all European languages are Latin based) where words are generally have more frills. I don't think you can say there are 'errors' in the language just because it doesn't follow Latin in a certain way... if you want to speak Latin.. well speak Latin

[Malfini]

Xordan all that means is that the Norman French stole Latin words and botched them and that after the Norman Conquest England had the weird Norman spelling forced upon them because they had been conquered. England later reformed many words though that had been botched during that time.

[Xordan]

Obviously you have no idea about the formation of modern day European languages, or past languages in Europe, although I wouldn't expect you to, being American. Before the Norman invasion the people in England certainly didn't speak English as it didn't exist. There was no 'weird Norman spelling' because hardly anybody could write. Norman French _became_ English, with words and grammar from lots of other languages mixed in over time. That's how languages come about you know, mixes of languages put together slowly evolving over time and being refined by various people. There was no reforming or anything similar, just what people spoke written how people thought it sounded. For that reason I think that accent had a lot to do with the differences between the English's. Maybe the guy who wrote the first American dictionary couldn't pronounce lour, or thought it sounded like lor (same for mour/mor etc). Modern day English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, etc. are all Latin based, as _is_ Norman French (Yes it still exists and is used... in Normany, France, although it's also evolved a lot since 1066). Are you saying that all those languages are just stolen botched bits of Latin?

[neko kyouran]

Obviously you have no idea about the formation of modern day European languages, or past languages in Europe, although I wouldn't expect you to, being American.

A side note I know, but:  So you're saying that becuase someone's from the USA, that they obviously can't know anything about the other parts of the world's history?  We're not all ignorant, Xor. I would think that some of those well respected world history professors at, say Harvard, might disagree with you.

[Malfini]

Obviously you have no idea about the formation of modern day European languages, or past languages in Europe, although I wouldn't expect you to, being American. Before the Norman invasion the people in England certainly didn't speak English as it didn't exist. There was no 'weird Norman spelling' because hardly anybody could write. Norman French _became_ English, with words and grammar from lots of other languages mixed in over time. That's how languages come about you know, mixes of languages put together slowly evolving over time and being refined by various people. There was no reforming or anything similar, just what people spoke written how people thought it sounded. For that reason I think that accent had a lot to do with the differences between the English's. Maybe the guy who wrote the first American dictionary couldn't pronounce lour, or thought it sounded like lor (same for mour/mor etc). Modern day English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, etc. are all Latin based, as _is_ Norman French (Yes it still exists and is used... in Normany, France, although it's also evolved a lot since 1066). Are you saying that all those languages are just stolen botched bits of Latin?

Haha!!! English was around at about 450 AD; so for you to say it didn't exist at the Norman Invasion of England is ridiculous.

Norman Conquest
       n : the invasion and settlement of England by the Normans
           following the Battle of Hastings (1066)

The English language has been variously divided into
           periods by different writers. In the division most
           commonly recognized, the first period dates from about
           450 to 1150

This is just way too funny. Seriously though you sound very angry. Please try to calm down Xordan.

*Edit*

Obviously you have no idea about the formation of modern day European languages, or past languages in Europe, although I wouldn't expect you to, being American.

I would recommend that you try not to post your intolerant views of Americans. You seem to think Americans are all stupid. They might not like this seeing as you are a developer and you sorta represent the PlaneShift project in a way.

*Edit*
I have much more to correct you on but I consider it a waste of time. Have a good day though. Please don't hate me Xordan. 

[Xordan]

I'm not angry Just pointing out some facts, and losing any structure in typing at 2:30am SOISOUNDABITLIKETHIS!!!RAAGH! 450AD-1150AD is far from 'around 450 AD' considering that we have very little idea what went on during the dark age. You know what the dark age is right? I would also hardly call the language in England around then 'English', mainly because it was highly Germanic from the Saxons and Angles, then it was heavily altered by another Scandinavian branch of the Germanic dialect, and then by Norman French. So please don't do the "HAHA I found a quote on some random website therefore I'm right and English is the same as in 450AD" thing. I can add the influence of the Celtic in the region too, plus that of the Vikings. Old English didn't form until all those languages mingled and spat out something quite different to the early dark ages.

neko: Well, the majority of people in the USA won't know about it (Harvard professors obviously aren't that), because I don't believe you learn the history of European languages in USA high school (or much beyond USA history). Correct me if I'm wrong, and pardon if I'm just coming across too blunt. I guess this answers the "you think all americans are stupid" edit above too.

[Monketh]

Only attentive students pick up the history of English in my area, and only by chance.  That would seem to confirm the "Americans don't learn the origins of English" notion Xordan has.

[Malfini]

Xordan, I honestly think that you have even less of a clue of what you are talking about than me (the dumb American). I think my participation in this thread is rather futile. I like American English and you like Queens English and I doubt this will ever change. 

*Edit*
In high school I actually had to take a class named "English Literature" where I had to read stories that were written in a very old form of English that was used long before America even existed. I also know that in some of the history textbooks there were some things about the evolution of languages. To be fair though fallible people write history books and they write them however they see fit. 

*Edit*
I think it would be best if a moderator locks this thread now.

[neko kyouran]

@ Xor,  My schooling years had elective world history courses each year one could take to broaden thier views on the world around them.  Only the american history course was required.  I always took the elective courses.  I found them more interresting than the boring american one.

I can't say that all schools are set up like that, but around here in boringsville ohio, that's what it is.  

[Kiraki]

In South Africa we use UK English as this is taught in schools and we would get marked down for using US English despite the good arguments we came up with

Regardless of the origin of the word the way it is spelt changes the pronunciation to me.

For instance the difference between colour and color:  To me the first would be pronounced  k(u)l(e)r  where as the second would be pronounced k(u)l(o)r (Forums doesnt support symbols so edited to add this ).  Thus I prefer the first as this is how I pronounce the word.

Maybe we can just write and speak in scientific lingo then?
 

   

Hehe I found this very funny!  Ever hear Jack and Jill told in scientific lingo?  Found this somewhere a while ago, although it is scientifically not completely correct one gets the basic idea.

A research team proceeded toward the apex of a natural geological protuberance, the purpose of their expedition being the procurement of a sample of fluid hydride of oxygen in a large vessel, the exact size of which was unspecified. 
One member of the team precipitately descended, sustaining severe fractural damage to the upper cranial portion of his anatomical structure.  Subsequently, the second member of the team performed a self-rotational translation oriented in the direction taken by the first member.

Sourced from:  Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water.  Jack fell down and broke his crown and Jill came tumbling after.

[Malfini]

I didn't go to your stereotypical public school in the United States. I went to a charter school and graduated a little early. I had to take a world history class as well.

*Edit*
I love it when people of other countries sometimes have the attitude of "I'm smarter than you because you're in America and all Yanks are stupid.". It helps me get a very pleasurable belly laugh.