All hail the collapse of the economy!

[emeraldfool]

Ive very rarely used the PS forums before, howvere had i said what i planned to do, then i would not have been able to

Which is a good thing. See, you did a bad thing. You admitted it yourself.

You at least can't deny what I'm saying, because you didn't try it. At most I'm right and... uh... you should spank yourself...

[Eid]

* Eid spanks himself

[zanzibar]

Oh not this 'glitches are your friends' crap...

What?  Where?!  Who's saying such things?

Oh.  No one.  Whew!  False alarm.

[Roahn]

I agree, and i know of many people who reported it "shouted" it.

I don't believe you. I've never come across the exploit until recently, and I've been scouring the forums for the last two months. I would've noticed something big.

I can verify this. I personally reported this to a GM here in the forums two months ago, had them log into PS, then I stepped them through the very simple process, showing them how to duplicate items. I stressed that this bug would devastate the economy and require a massive wipe when others discovered it, and that others WOULD discover it soon, because it was a very simple bug. They agreed that it was a huge bug, yet after 2 months, it remained.

In case you hadn't noticed - it's the forums where all the action takes place

Actually "talk" takes place in the forums. I think Eid proved to us all that the "action" takes place in the game.

-Roahn

[emeraldfool]

Actually "talk" takes place in the forums. I think Eid proved to us all that the "action" takes place in the game.

-Roahn

No, he proved that when you destroy a game, people take notice.
And a GM doesn't have the ability to fix bugs. They're just players with special powers.


The forums is where everyone comes together. That's where you should drop your bombs. Everybody knows that.

It's like the difference between blowing up a statue to prove a point, or blowing up a school to prove a point.

Both send out the message 'we have bombs', but one results in a lot of innocent dead people...

[Roahn]

No, he proved that when you destroy a game, people take notice.

You think Eid destroyed the game? From what I see, he did his "stunt" on Wednesday. On Thursday, they fixed the bug. On Friday, they got rid of all the excess weapons, money, and precious items that people had acquired by using said bug. I played PS for a couple of hours today, and it didn't seem "destroyed" to me. I think Yliakum is a better place today than it was a week ago.

It's like the difference between blowing up a statue to prove a point, or blowing up a school to prove a point.
Both send out the message 'we have bombs', but one results in a lot of innocent dead people...

Except his "bomb" DID send a message (one that resulted in significant improvements), and nobody died.

-Roahn

[zanzibar]

I probably won't win any popularity points for saying this, but I don't give a damn!

What Eid did was awesome.  Culmi Navarre salutes you, Eid!  Godspeed!

 


Seriously.  He saw a problem.  He saw that it wasn't being dealt with.  He did something drastic but he knew it wouldn't really hurt anyone, and he did it despite knowing it would mean a personal sacrifice.  Banned for a year!  Now that's commitment to your values!

Of course, it's just being banned.  No biggy.

[Garon]

Ive very rarely used the PS forums before, howvere had i said what i planned to do, then i would not have been able to

Which is a good thing. See, you did a bad thing. You admitted it yourself.

You at least can't deny what I'm saying, because you didn't try it. At most I'm right and... uh... you should spank yourself...

So we get to "Is it the means or the end that counts", on which I have never heard a truly convincing argument either way:  therefore, I remain neutral and say that they both matter.


Had Eid said what he was going to do on the forums, perhaps the bug would've been fixed, but it wouldn't have been so drastically responded to, so the economy would have a much longer reconstruction period.

[Karyuu]

Let me steal a moment of your time for something:

Upon some checking, this is a bug that was reported to me personally around the beginning of December. After testing it out, I passed it on to people who are not on the art team ;) It seemed like it was being looked into, so after a while I thought no more of it and it started to gather dust in the corners of my mind. Now, we can't all keep track of every reported problem, even if the severity of some is really high. Real life interferes with issues that matter a hell of a lot more, computer access disappears, things come up. If you report a problem that is this serious or has a similar gloom-and-doom over it, please poke us about it more than once. This does not mean poking us every day, but if its serious then make a weekly effort to check on its status. Had I been reminded of this issue some time later, I would've gone "Holy crap, I wonder what happened to that bug?" and done a further check on the fix. I know that bugs and fixes are our responsibility, and there's a very delicate balance between reminding devs about what needs to be done and badgering them. However sometimes you really need to extend serious effort to make sure these things don't get forgotten, like they seem to have been in this episode.

I'm not laying any blame on anyone's shoulders. But I do recommend being adamant about seeing fixes for some things of this gravity. I am always here for people who need an ear on such issues - don't be afraid to pester me about bugs, of all things.

[emeraldfool]

You think Eid destroyed the game? From what I see, he did his "stunt" on Wednesday. On Thursday, they fixed the bug. On Friday, they got rid of all the excess weapons, money, and precious items that people had acquired by using said bug. I played PS for a couple of hours today, and it didn't seem "destroyed" to me. I think Yliakum is a better place today than it was a week ago.

Except his "bomb" DID send a message (one that resulted in significant improvements), and nobody died.

-Roahn

Yeah, he destroyed it, and they picked up all the pieces and stitched it back together again. You really think that if he had got the message out about this thing properly 2 months ago, that it wouldn't be any different than it was now? Of 'course it would. Instead he had to pull this macho stuff and go out with a big bang.
Personally I think he's enjoying all this martyrdom and notoriety.

Seriously.  He saw a problem.  He saw that it wasn't being dealt with.  He did something drastic but he knew it wouldn't really hurt anyone, and he did it despite knowing it would mean a personal sacrifice.  Banned for a year!  Now that's commitment to your values!

Of course, it's just being banned.  No biggy.

Wouldn't really hurt anyone!? What about all the lost time? All the frustration? All the people who have quit over this? All the commotion that Kay and the other mods have had to put up with?


This isn't 'personal sacrifice', this is someone who got bored and decided to stroke his ego by becoming the next Planeshift Jesus. Why else would he be back here?





Edit:

Had Eid said what he was going to do on the forums, perhaps the bug would've been fixed, but it wouldn't have been so drastically responded to, so the economy would have a much longer reconstruction period.

I'm talking 2 months ago, before all this started. And I'm also talking more than a 'fix thiz bug plz!!1' post. I'm saying start a forum riot that can't be ignored. A heated argument. A picture of Kay naked. Anything that'll grab attention but wont waste everyone's time.

Editara: Or what Kay said.

[zanzibar]

Wouldn't really hurt anyone!? What about all the lost time? All the frustration? All the people who have quit over this? All the commotion that Kay and the other mods have had to put up with?

If anyone quits the game because of this, good riddance!

As far as lost time goes, if you don't enjoy making money, then don't spend too much time doing it.

And hey, everyone gets to keep 150,000 which is LOADS.  More than anyone would ideally ever need.

[bilbous]

It seems to me that the proper course of action (which doesn't seem to have been done) was to have posted a full description of the bug and the steps to produce it on the bug tracker. That is what the bug tracker is for. Searching the tracker for duplication and dupe I see one veiled reference to it in a bug marked unconfirmed.

[Garon]

Wouldn't really hurt anyone!? What about all the lost time? All the frustration? All the people who have quit over this? All the commotion that Kay and the other mods have had to put up with?

If anyone quits the game because of this, good riddance!

As far as lost time goes, if you don't enjoy making money, then don't spend too much time doing it.

And hey, everyone gets to keep 150,000 which is LOADS.  More than anyone would ideally ever need.

Eh, if you intend to get your character to the point where he or she can kill almost anything, 150,000 goes pretty fast.

[Lanarel]

It seems to me that the proper course of action (which doesn't seem to have been done) was to have posted a full description of the bug and the steps to produce it on the bug tracker. That is what the bug tracker is for. Searching the tracker for duplication and dupe I see one veiled reference to it in a bug marked unconfirmed.

It was more clearly (too clearly) described end of December here. So clear in fact that it seemed improbable that it was not being worked on. So many bugs are being added by people repeating old difficult-to-fix problems like sewer openings or unimportant once like exit crashes that it got buried on page 2 pretty fast. I can imagine devs not finding all of the important ones by themselves, or others forgetting to repeat asking them if they did.

The bug and wipe did not effect me at all, however the mess in the forums did. Let me just say that I am impressed with how well everything is handled by the devs, and how calmly, patiently and clearly they are able to respond on the forums. After reading most of the posts I know that not everyone agrees with me on this, that is why I mention it here
 

[zanzibar]

it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself

Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point

also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most

Right, because if players had the resources to use all the features of the game as they please, the Planeshift community would die.  It's so obvious.

so what your saying is i should have told EVERYONE how to use the bug to even it out raher than telling no one but those who can fix it?

He's saying that we could've survived without your help.

Actually, what I was saying was that infinite access to money and resources just means that everyone can test out the features of the game without worrying about making money.  Making money is boring!

Eh, if you intend to get your character to the point where he or she can kill almost anything, 150,000 goes pretty fast.

PLer! 

Farmers are supposed to make 200 trias a year.  So 150,000 trias represents a farmer's wages for 750 years.  You're right though, 150,000 can go by pretty fast.  But it's still a big amount of coin!  And if you have it saved up, then it means you don't have any intention of spending it in the very near future.