Open letter to Planeshift Team and to players

[Karyuu]

However, the general view that we as players are all likely to cheat at the first opportunity isn't true; unfortunately I find this is a prevailing view among those who're in charge of keeping cheaters down in mmorpgs.  I can understand the need to be suspicious due to those few who ruin it for the rest of us, but the prevailing idea that everyone can't be trusted is a bad one.

Whenever possible, GMs try to give players the benefit of the doubt in questionable situations. We hope players do not attempt to take advantage of this trust, and provide their full cooperation.

We want this game to be good for new players and old, RPers and gamers, so we need the economy to not have billions of circles.  Wiping is a drastic measure and we don't do it without a lot of thought, debate and discussion about the best way to undo the damage caused by our bugs (sorry!) without hurting the innocent.  We do our best to find and fix bugs we find, but this is a huge and complex game and it is very difficult to keep up with innovative players. :-)

Just the immediate quotes I could think of. It's wrong to think that all players are cheaters, and it's wrong to think that this is what the dev team thinks So don't.

Gwinn, I think it's absolutely appalling to say that you've seen a "lack of respect, common human courtesy, to any of the testers/players." What game are you playing, exactly? Please don't try to demonize us, we don't like that too much.

[Esserfin]

[GMs are above the status of 'player'. They have responsibilities, duties, they've worked for their trust.

GMs are GMs when they uses GMs accounts...and players when they uses players accounts.
You can try to become a GM too if you want to...

It's different from simply declaring 'I want to have superior stats because I'll use them to test stuff'.

Now i have the proof...you have undertood nothing of what i was saying. I'll try to enance my english next time.

@ Garon : Play for two years most of the days and, after, repeat me that you're saying about my showing off frienship with GMs/Devs. It's a natural evolution of relationships....i'm not special.

[Nilrem]

Oh! An open letter!

* Nilrem throws away the paperknife

*someone yells next door*

There's always the same debate around wipes.

I don't think money in game is that important, personally, and I see no substantial difference in those having 30M, or those having 200k (in game ^^). Exploiting a bug to earn money isn't ethic, but really leads nowhere, since I wonder what they were going to do with that money, afterwards.

People hates wipes, for what they loose.

What I don't like about wipes, is that general believing amongst certain parts of the playerbase that try to think about a "RPed" (*sigh*) reason as to justify why they lost their items. It is then, Esserfin, when we're rediscovering the wheel. The gods punished the citizens for having too much, a massive stealing took place amongst the population... and other equally original plots arise as to justify something that does not need to be justified IC. And that, even if it "could" be justified, has in no way to force others to follow that plot. "So, you say gods did not punish you?"
Frankly, that's the part of wipes that I'd like to avoid the most.
Except when it concerns complete wipe, that I've to redo if I play, the buddy list. But this is not the present case, if I've read the threads correctly.

There is also that point about being maxed to test things out to the full. Nothing against that, but, in any case, I think any GM can edit their own stats. Sure, players can contribute there too, but it's not strictly necessary to have maxed chars to test. A GM can edit their own stats, for testing purposes if needed be. They might also alter another char stats, I think.
One might think... yeah, but GM are few, and players are lots, so players could seek and find those bugs faster than GM alone. Agree completely. But, afterall, if you've to be maxed to find a bug, and noone still is, then it's affecting noone yet either. So, when players do reach that state (that could have been "explored" by GM before hand) where that bug might show, then they'd be able to find it, and report it.

The game mechanics are heavily unbalanced. Even without actually "cheating" someone posted here, or in another similar thread (sorry not to recall your name) that with mining, one can become rich fairly quick. The nice thing is that then all is dressed as roleplay and there can be public auctions settled anywhere in Hydlaa, where insane amounts of trias are payed for items. Those amounts seem completely ooc to me, and simply show an unbalance with the mechanics the game has to earn money.

I resist myself to assume, too, that the IC reality is that the wealthier beings in Yliakum have their hands gashed due to having spent much time digging with a pick. Call me classical, but I picture the wealthy ones differently.

I think there should be a moment where the player realizes about the meaningless attitude of earning money. "I earn it for my guild, or those new members of it, to aid them". Well, judging the quantities that have been posted somewhere, there was not much need of keeping adding money into the box. In any case, and then again to imagine guilds as an structure inside a society, I personally do not see the higher ranks of them fighting endlessly or mining mindlessly with the aim of earning money for their initiates.

Unfortunately seems that the fashion is to live a continued gold rush.
And this insanity, starts from the very point where you send a new player to the sewers, to kill rats, instead of treating him like a real new being for the city. Even if some do send them with nice sentences that might appear as "RP", truth is that, if we take some distance from the scene, I think it's easy to see that, in reality, that massive "recruitment to deal with the sewer rat infestion" is not believable. But that's another story, and is a bit out of topic in here.

I think there has to be some self control from the player side, as to see what would be seen as "acceptable" from a realistic point of view, in a realistic environment IC.

PS: Seems there have been many replies while reading this. Let's not turn this into flaming one another.

Gwinn Ravenn I just read your post, and it is worrying. I should try to find more info about that distancing between playerbase and development team. I'll try to search and find out if your feelings are shared by many. Thanks for your post.

[Gwinn Ravenn]

Please understand my post was not written with the slightest amount of hostility. It was made with much sadness. as I have said I have seen reaction to many compains be : suck it up or simply your all testers. that in my opinion is not respectful to anyone. thos many may say the same things. it is only because they need to get it off their chest as well they too need to vent. I have not be treated disrespectfully  then again I do not complain.. well until now that is. I can understand to you or anyone not taking kindly to my statements but they are my opinion. and other than this reply I will not express them again. I stand by my statement, it is by what I have seen in the forum the experences shared to me by other that have colored my opinions.

[Karyuu]

Have you perhaps noticed that the overwhelming majority of "suck it up" or "you are all testers" comments have been made by your fellow players?

[Nurahk]

It's like people give you a slice of cake and you whine about not getting the whole bakery.

Please, stop whining, it's getting tiring.  It happens every time there is a wipe, there is absolutely nothing new to say and, all you are doing is encouraging the devs to not let you in.

Be grateful for what you have and stop complaining.

[Gwinn Ravenn]

and how are we to know what comments come from devs and gm's and what come from other players? unless you know who is who hard to tell. but that does not chage my statements. as I said experiences have been relayed to me that color my opinion.

as far as people complaining. they need to vent, even if they say exactly the same thing as another. they them selves need to say it. as long as they are not abusing others then even if your tired of hearing it it should not be silenced. that is disrespectful. it is like say I dont care what you say someone else said it so your comment was unnecessary. as so we will delet it and if someone agrees with you they dont get to say so because we locked down the thread so we dont have to know how deeply and passionately and how wide spread this feeling is.  *sigh*

"Be grateful for what you have and stop complaining" from the above post

This is exactly what Frustrates us.. i have no way of know if this person is a dev or a gm. if this is not the feeling of same then pls let us know who you are what is official what is not.

[Esserfin]

Oh! An open letter!

let me start saying that my letter is totaly OOC.
About the part concerning the earned trias for the guild let me say that, as we already said, it's something that *happens* after a while...sum of the donations we get from members and give to the treasury.
About GMs ability to rise their stats...do you really think they have also the time to move around for hours to check bugs?
To be a GM it's an hard work and my proposal was a try to do part of the work for them ...something that a honest player can do easily (as we always do playing). But there are situations that needs high stats/skills. And after a wipe we all lose them. So...let me try to explain with one example... if an ulber starts to drop silverweave swords after an update or a wipe we'll see it after 3 months of re-traiining when we move to kill our first ulber. Or if a spell fails all the times above the 30 level. That's a waste of time imho.
Playing this game for a long time teaches you that most of the trias and weapons you have are useless...be sure that i know it. But the possibility to discover a bug because of my high stas/skills is something no one can pay me back. It's part of my presence ingame.

@ Gwinn : You used the right word...frustration

[emeraldfool]

Gwinn, if you and a bunch of your friends made a game in your spare time purely because you enjoyed doing so, and you decided to release it, even though it was far from finished, so others could enjoy it, would you rather:

a) make sure the people who are playing with your work for free are 100% satisfied and content before continuing with your own enjoyment

or

b) do what you've signed up to do, and what you enjoy doing, and maybe dedicate 20% of your time to helping others enjoy your work



My point is; if you pay the Devs' and GMs' salaries, then you can decide who they listen to and what their priorities are.
Until then, you're kinda at their mercy .

If you're not satisfied, make your own game

[Nurahk]

So, what you are saying is that because the Player's exploit bug, the devs should have to put up with whining?
Now, forgive me, I'm a bit slow today but, that sounds completely idiotic.  Just my opinion.

The Devs gave us a game, said it was alpha and that there will be wipes.  You've been warned countless times, get over it.

As a great man once said
"Waaaaaaaa, Waaaaaaa, Waaaaa, somebody call the waaaaaaaambulance"

[josephoenix]

and how are we to know what comments come from devs and gm's and what come from other players? unless you know who is who hard to tell.
...
 i have no way of know if this person is a dev or a gm. if this is not the feeling of same then pls let us know who you are what is official what is not.

All developers, moderators, IRC-ops, and GMs have an avatar and/or a "rank" under their name. (Shorty13 does too, but he isn't supposed to. o.O)

josePhoenix

[emeraldfool]

So, what you are saying is that because the Player's exploit bug, the devs should have to put up with whining?
Now, forgive me, I'm a bit slow today but, that sounds completely idiotic.  Just my opinion.

The Devs gave us a game, said it was alpha and that there will be wipes.  You've been warned countless times, get over it.

As a great man once said
"Waaaaaaaa, Waaaaaaa, Waaaaa, somebody call the waaaaaaaambulance"

Nurahk, you're not exactly helping either


You're unsympathetic. We get it. Your opinion has been registered. You can rest easy now 

[Narure]

So, what you are saying is that because the Player's exploit bug, the devs should have to put up with whining?
Now, forgive me, I'm a bit slow today but, that sounds completely idiotic.  Just my opinion.

The Devs gave us a game, said it was alpha and that there will be wipes.  You've been warned countless times, get over it.

As a great man once said
"Waaaaaaaa, Waaaaaaa, Waaaaa, somebody call the waaaaaaaambulance"

Now your whining that people are whining... this could get complicated very quickly.

[Karyuu]

Frankly, yes I am tired of wipe threads. We are all tired of wipe threads. I no longer care about what people have to say about wipes, and I will be absolutely blunt about it. The opinions are nothing new. The comments are nothing we haven't heard through several years. The endless complaining drives me away time and time again and makes me hesitate to check back here again. The negativity, the accusations, all that jazz. And that's exactly what stops a lot of the developers from visiting the forums frequently - because they feel cornered and attacked. Players come and players go, but we stick around and get to hear all the commotion from a thousand mouths, like broken records.

These forums are not for venting. If you need to channel out your frustration, you may be asked to do it somewhere else because a lot of us are tired of feeling like we have targets branded onto our foreheads. If you manage to make a post that genuinely expresses something really well-worded and thought out, we love that. But if you're again pouting at wipes and their effects, what good are you doing? You think we're not aware of how wipes affect players?

The distance that you are creating between players and the development team is sometimes just that - your own creation.

[Nurahk]

I'm more disgusted by the lack of gratitude than unsympathetic.

It's like kicking Santa in the crotch because he had to fix one of your computer and you lost your save game.

I can understand that people are annoyed by the lost items and tria, feeling that their time was wasted.  But it wasn't, if you're a half decent player than you got to develop your character and chances are something you did at sometime helped the game.  Be happy with that, and maybe the devs will do a reward for faithfulness again, but that happened after years of development.