Whining.

[drah]

If I was on the dev or mod team... I would have already taken the bull by the horns on the other issue.

1. Explain/justify the changes.

2. Get the "whiners" to chill by explaining that they can still use player-skill [in this particular instance]. (I'd explain how... but I don't want to go into detail as this isn't the right thread for it!!)

3. Let them know that not only is this an alpha game.. but this dueling system is in place and requires proper testing (not just "urgh.. don't like it.. won't test it or even give it a chance"), and that to complain immediately doesn't help and that they should TRY to get used to it for a week or two at least before reacting, especially when player-skill is actually STILL a factor.

A good post that covered these could have been more effective than closing the thread (I'm not condemning the closure of the thread, just saying a good-post can be equally or more effective) or any other action taken by anyone... --- please know though, that I don't blame Karyuu (or any other moderators) at all for that.. because I don't think that the above explanation is one Karyuu (or the moderators) could have delivered due to not having the information to assert such things.

@Neko... even I could tell from the first post that this thread was going to be a bumpy ride.

[Nurahk]

I'd agree with you, Drah, if the team was paid.

And we can not expect the team to do everything right, this thread is more about how we, as a player community and a tester community, can avoid flame wars.

I'm just going to state this quickly

Whiner: Somebody who states something should be changed without reason.
Somebody who complains about something that can not be changed.
Somebody who states something should be changed without contributing anything new to the thread.

[Coneitic]

ps tester...

i think the devs have the mind frame of

"its our game, you all should be thankful u get to play what we make"

instead of

"its our game, and thank u for helping us see how this game stands to play out once its on the market. we anticipate your words and thoughts and hope to use them to better the game, as to which we need u as much as u need us"

i believe it was once like that, maybe one day it will be like that again.

[Nurahk]

I don't believe that, Talad is very nice to everybody, actualy.
I've yet to see Venge or Acraig or any Dev turn anybody down when they ask for help.

I think that the Devs have become slightly more defensive because of the rudeness coming from the Player Community.

But this is offtopic.  This thread should be about how to avoid flame wars.

[drah]

@Nurahk.. ^^ I was a freeware developer and created a program used by millions of people (and still is used by millions of people)... and had experience a lot of political battles against hostile, internet-savvy groups.

Thus my lack of sympathy  

But I do have some genuine empathy for the PS team... though it may be hard to see sometimes.

[Karyuu]

[...] I don't think that the above explanation is one Karyuu (or the moderators) could have delivered due to not having the information to assert such things.

I definitely want to highlight this point, and thank you for bringing it up. I was especially upset at someone saying that the reason no developer made a post is because they made a mistake and there is no backdoor. The real reason there was no post for a long time is because the people involved in this change were not on the forum. As much as I would love to have all the answers for everything, I don't. There are some things outside of my department, so to speak. We do have some very active developers who interact with the community, but please do not expect us to pipe in in every major thread that appears on this board. The more hostility we feel towards us, the less we want to be here and talk to you (general public). I know this is a test of patience for everyone quite frequently, but please try to be nice.

To all the pessimistic individuals, I say that you are just wasting your own time right now. You really have no idea how much horsecrap we have to wade through every day, and to add your negativity here instead of being supportive is just rude.

[Parallo]

ps tester...

i think the devs have the mind frame of

"its our game, you all should be thankful u get to play what we make"

instead of

"its our game, and thank u for helping us see how this game stands to play out once its on the market. we anticipate your words and thoughts and hope to use them to better the game, as to which we need u as much as u need us"

i believe it was once like that, maybe one day it will be like that again.

Market?

You should be thankful. If you're not thankful then obviously you're not enjoying yourself and therefore should go elsewhere.

[Nurahk]

@Drah, but that is mainly your choice to be nice to the community.

Either way, I agree with you, but I don't think that it is their responsability to do it, it's just one of their options.
What I'm trying to do though is get this back to "What can we do to avoid Flame Wars?" and ignore the Devs and such completely (In a nice way )

[lordraleigh]

ps tester...

i think the devs have the mind frame of

"its our game, you all should be thankful u get to play what we make"

instead of

"its our game, and thank u for helping us see how this game stands to play out once its on the market. we anticipate your words and thoughts and hope to use them to better the game, as to which we need u as much as u need us"

i believe it was once like that, maybe one day it will be like that again.

Market?

You should be thankful. If you're not thankful then obviously you're not enjoying yourself and therefore should go elsewhere.

Being thankful doesn't means lowering your head and accepting all development decisions as absolute truths and as right things regardless of other facts. Alienating from the community and closing ears for suggestions and then saying "This is our game! We'll do it the way we wish to, and we are closed to suggestions" is not something a development team should do.

What can we do to avoid Flame Wars?

Simple: Nobody replying to troll messages, everyone ignoring them fully and nobody challenging trolls by referring to them as idiots.

The problem is when two trolls bicker among themselves... that's another case.

[Kiern]

Also an issue, pointless threads.  Do you honestly think anyone is going to read this and then stop whining?  Hasn't worked before, what's different now?  You have two options, ban them all or get used to it...and since you can't do the first option, you should probably go with the second.

I don't believe that, Talad is very nice to everybody, actualy.
I've yet to see Venge or Acraig or any Dev turn anybody down when they ask for help.

I think that the Devs have become slightly more defensive because of the rudeness coming from the Player Community.

...then they've changed completely in the past 3 (4? 2?  I don't know) years.  Not that that point of view is a bad thing..it's what got them this far I guess.

[Gharan]

It is true, I don't know why we all complain. PS is unique. You search for a MMORPG and you're very lucky if the RP part exists at all. PS is the only game i've found that offers good RP. I hope I offended no Dev in the dueling thread, that was never intended I was just expressing how I felt without even giving the thought that even in 3 days I might of got used to it. As for whining, I put down my feelings, I really should check what I write but I still don't think i've ever been offensive to anyone.

PS is a great community whining or not  

[Nurahk]

Raleigh, so inform people when they are trolls and show them how to change.  Use PM to inform and this thread can be something of a guide on what not to do.

Kiern, aye, it is a bit of a pointless thread.  But one can always hope.  As for the Devs, that's my impression of them, I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

[Coneitic]

ps tester...

i think the devs have the mind frame of

"its our game, you all should be thankful u get to play what we make"

instead of

"its our game, and thank u for helping us see how this game stands to play out once its on the market. we anticipate your words and thoughts and hope to use them to better the game, as to which we need u as much as u need us"

i believe it was once like that, maybe one day it will be like that again.

Market?

You should be thankful. If you're not thankful then obviously you're not enjoying yourself and therefore should go elsewhere.

dude insane... you didnt even understand that.


i am thankful for the game, i was simply saying that devs should be just as thankful for the testers, especially the ones who stick by the game and devote hours to "testing" the game. i, in no way, said i wasnt thankful. it was a great game, still somewhat is, all i stated was that devs should appreciate its testers as mucha s the testers appreciate the game. and even the rude ones, the jerks, the "noobs" they are testers too, and provide the devs with informating such as how some view the game, and what their expieriences are with teh game, whether it be a well written logical post or an assidine ignorant rude post. it is only thier to help the devs. and i believe if the devs cant be as thankful as we the testers are, then they are taking advantage of what they have right now. and im not necessarily saying they are taking advantage of the situation. but think it the balance is well.. not so balanced

[neko kyouran]

The devs do care about the player base.

They don't care for the people that think they own the dev team's sole.

That simple.

[chazarus]

The devs do care about the player base.

They don't care for the people that think they own the dev team's sole.

That simple.

So your saying the $5 dollars i gave to the devil for them was a scam?

Dam not again