Author Topic: Dark empire discussion  (Read 15903 times)

Garile

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2007, 06:31:06 am »
Thank you Lomerandin. *smiles*

I wasn't really thinking to deeply about the revolution and when it all happened but now that you mention it you are completely right. Well not sure you are sompletely, but about Napoleon only being the leader after the revolution and all. Still in your mind the two are hard to seperate ;)

But anyhow drifting ;)
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lordraleigh

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Sangwa

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2007, 02:22:12 pm »
Wow. I didn't even remember that post.

We've evolved plenty.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and I can be reasoned with. I'm probably right, though.

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Garile

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2007, 10:45:16 pm »
1. You mentioned it yourself it's five years. That is what? More then twenty years in PS? And you think it's strange the DE has changed a bit from that first day it was created? After so many changes in the game and so many wipes it's rather nitpicking to dig up threads from five years ago.

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Everyone is treated fairly and is to be respected.  We help each other in times of need and we work together to accomplish our missions and goals.

2. I don't see how it has changed as much as you say. It always had a caring part for it's own members just as it has now. And yes in theory our enemies could be anyone we wish, but in the FIVE years around I believe it's been proven the DE isn't a random kill all guild no matter what you seem to suggest. Yes we have gone more political then was envisioned in the beginning, but that is adjusting to what is possible in the game and adjusting to what would be realistic at this point in the game. A change that happened years ago aswell and not just today mind you
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Sangwa

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2007, 11:32:06 pm »
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I believe it's been proven the DE isn't a random kill all guild no matter what you seem to suggest. Yes we have gone more political then was envisioned in the beginning, but that is adjusting to what is possible in the game and adjusting to what would be realistic at this point in the game.

Exactly. It's been a great effort to adapt the Dark Empire to the Planeshift setting without disrupting its initial idea. I believe I was successful, though I might have added some extra subtlety to it.
Changes were brought upon taking into consideration that there's a poweful government in Yliakum and you can't just go around killing people and ignore the retribution of such power.

I believe what we have now is a great success. The Empire is gathering forces to be able to set its own place somewhere. We're not after a lost city, we're not searching for our lost legacy. We're simply seeking out a place for ourselves, at the moment, to base our power and live prosperly.
Considering we're staying at a place we do not deem to be our own (Hydlaa), and that we're obviously respectful of everything around us, it's only normal that we dont' go around raising swords against people without a reason. It would make us seem unworthy of power, and it'd be suicide.

Our objective can't be reached in a day. It can't be done, like some people some times expect, with a war, or with a threat or anything like that. It must be planned and executed patiently and surely, so the base of our effort is solid enough to resist anything that comes. This way any possible failures will be met with resistance, and all successes kept with perseverance.


I'd like to discuss something more pertinent though. These are questions we're usually asked, and the answers I've given to them.
"What have you conquered to be an Empire?" Currently we've achieved respect, members of great skill and our plots are pointing flawlessly towards the occupation of our first lands. These are traits of an Empire. I actually prefer to think we're a proto-empire than making up a story about having lands in some place that no one can get to. I'd rather have myself and the imperialists be the ones to forge our history. It will mean alot more in the future, and it's how we've been doing things up until now.

"You are named the Dark Empire and you don't kill lots of people! We're bored and we think the only thing fun about playing PS is the Good vs Evil fights which you guys never, or rarely, take part in. Why aren't you cool like the rest of us who take part in those pointless events?" Hahaha. Go away. I'm not sure you can shame yourself any further, but I'd rather not have to find out.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 11:52:59 pm by Sangwa »
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and I can be reasoned with. I'm probably right, though.

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zanzibar

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2007, 11:37:47 pm »
It's the journey that's important in the end anyway.
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John80sk

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2007, 11:12:19 am »
actually capitalism would be unlawful evil, being a free market and all :)

In true capitalism, you are a victim to the laws of competition and social darwinism.  There may be a lack of rules and a lack of social services, but there are laws (better described as values) which have led to their absence.  Capitalism is a society determined by a faith in competition, a faith in social darwinism, and a faith in market forces.  So I think it's entirely appropriate to say that capitalism is lawful in the RPG sense.
yeah, I know, this is from way back when, but with this you are subjected to nothing more than natures law.  By this definition all things involving living creatures are lawful.
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zanzibar

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2007, 07:27:11 pm »
yeah, I know, this is from way back when, but with this you are subjected to nothing more than natures law.  By this definition all things involving living creatures are lawful.

There is nothing natural about capitalism or its premises.

In the natural world, we do see examplse of animals and insects working towards a common goal.  We see self sacrifice for the common good.  Some creatures work according to their ability and take according to their needs.  This idea of everyone being out for themselves in a cut throat competitive environment is not natural.  It's not even human.  The reason why the human race has achieved such greatness is because of our ability to work together and take care of one another.

Not only is capitalism unnatural, it's unhuman as well.
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lordraleigh

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2007, 07:36:18 pm »
Not only is capitalism unnatural, it's unhuman as well.

Who made it then if it isn't human? The devil?

Nah, capitalism is just another form of hierarchical distribution of power, and as all others, leads to corruption. But ambition and ego are very common in human nature, specially when culturally they are encouraged, alongside the brainwashing of media to promote unstopable consumerism that pulls people to the edges in the permanent goal of acquiring money.

And the Dark Empire is closest to being in between Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil if using D&D alignments. Although D&D alignments are extremely superficial.

zanzibar

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2007, 08:08:20 pm »
What makes them evil?  Their tactics?  I've seen supposedly "good" guilds do things that would make your grandmother cry.



The point is that pure capitalism is not natural.  Just as you say, it's a structure forced upon society by human agency.
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lordraleigh

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2007, 08:47:10 pm »
You do not judge an organization by its means, but by its ends.

An autocracy could be considered either as lawful neutral or as lawful evil from the sketchy D&D alignments. But the very subjective(and arguable) concept of "Benevolent Dictator" could fit here as well. I would say the Dark Empire currently is more of a lawful neutral organization.

zanzibar

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2007, 09:30:04 pm »
You do not judge an organization by its means, but by its ends.

I hold the opposite as true.  "Rule by X" is a statement of means.
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Immaturity is FTW.

Ecuetas

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2007, 11:01:44 pm »
Growls tired of people spreading false rumours and speculations of his empire

Get it straight, it's Neutral good.
Those whom are afraid of Ecuetas in game are afraid out of stupidity or rumoured speculations.
Ecuetas has always fought to uphold justice. As has his fellow guild members. We do not go around attempting to enslave people. We do not go around slaughtering people just because they give us a dirty look.
Those who fear ecuetas, fear him out of stupidity and rumoured speculations because they do not take the time to get to know him. As is the same with the rest of his guild members. END DISCUSSIONS OF US BEING NAZIS! I am part German, and ANYONE comparing us to nazis's is becoming quite insulting.

I can show people true evil in game if you want the rumours to be true. But guess what. I serve a higher purpose. I serve Nurahk, and Sangwa, so without there permission, I will not show people true evil. End of this topic. No more, it is dead.

It's old. We're not lawful evil. On our website we are Neutral Good. So stop the rumours. I'm tired of being tugged in 15 different directions at once with people pulling me aside asking are we evil?! We're NOT!

That's the end of it. I don't want to hear anymore of this DE is evil and wants to control people!

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ThomPhoenix

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2007, 11:08:45 pm »
But the Dark Empire does want to control the people.
We're not evil. We're simply amazing.

Nurahk

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Re: Dark empire discussion
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2007, 11:14:59 pm »
The Empire does not want to hold a dictatorship over Yliakum.
We do not wish to restrict freedom any more than preventing crime.

As opposed to the common belief that we wish to own all of Yliakum we lean more towards having a hand in guiding it to better itself.