Dark empire discussion

[Nurahk]

Then we'll take another look at shaping the future, from a guilds perspective.

Killing thieves and murders is shaping the future, many good guilds have done this.
Does that make them evil?

[ThomPhoenix]

Indirect shaping yes. But I thought the Dark Empire was not one of those petty "good" guilds and wanted to shape the future directly.

[Nurahk]

We aren't, I'm just showing that any alignment can and should have the goal of shaping the future.

The Empire does not believe in alignment, this thread does nothing more than prove our point.  Certain aspects of the
guild may be evil, others may be good.  The end may be good the means evil and vice versa.  Added to which we do
not have any single goal besides shaping the future so that the world becomes a better place, by our standards.  And,
that goal is amazingly vague.

[bilbous]

@bilbous: I don't see how it is contradictory to be honorable while hiding your affiliations,
I see no reason why the mute hero is any less of a hero than the one who will never shut up.

Hmm that example is rather poor. It is true that the concept of secret guilds comes up against some out of context considerations as guild tags themselves are such. That being said I would consider it to be a lie of omission to appear to be guildless when you are a member of a guild that is bent on world domination. If all guilds had no tag then there would be no aspect of deception but the very act of hiding your affiliation lends the appearance of dishonorable intentions and it seems to me the truly honorable takes pains to avoid even the appearance of suspect actions.

This is a very theoretical distinction as real life is rarely black and white and you are free to define honor as you wish. It just goes against the ideal of honor. I do not believe that the government is so bad that it deserves to be overthrown and to seek power for its own sake is not an honorable course. Perhaps I have misunderstood the guilds intentions.

[ThomPhoenix]

Added to which we do not have any single goal besides shaping the future so that the world becomes a better place, by our standards.  And,
that goal is amazingly vague.

Yeah it's vague, I would really want to see an official Dark Empire "list of goals" or something to make it more clear.

[Nurahk]

That being said I would consider it to be a lie of omission to appear to be guildless when you are a member of a guild that is bent on world domination. If all guilds had no tag then there would be no aspect of deception but the very act of hiding your affiliation lends the appearance of dishonorable intentions and it seems to me the truly honorable takes pains to avoid even the appearance of suspect actions.

To begin, world domination is a rumour.  A false one at that.  If we were bent on world domination, we would have it.

Some of the most honorable ends have means that must be done is secrecy.  The Dark Empire isn't going to be Yliakum's savior, nor is it going to be it's bane.  We look after our own and see no point in flaunting everything good we do.  Honor to ones self and guild.

This is a very theoretical distinction as real life is rarely black and white and you are free to define honor as you wish. It just goes against the ideal of honor. I do not believe that the government is so bad that it deserves to be overthrown and to seek power for its own sake is not an honorable course. Perhaps I have misunderstood the guilds intentions.

I've already said that we do not wish to overthrow the gouvernment.

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A list of goals?

Alright, at the moment we are
1) Trying to stop people from murdering my daughter.
2) Hunting down a dwarf who killed a Glow in cold blood.
3) Trying to put an end to these misconceptions.

In the long run, we know that we want
1) Safety for the guild members
2) Knowledge of the happenings of Yliakum.
3) A good economical base
4) Knowledge of the arcane arts.

All of these are intertwined.

5) To bring the Dark Empire to glory.

[bilbous]

So if then I am a shopkeeper and I put a sign in my window saying "No Dark Imperials allowed" you would not enter even though I make far and away the best ale in the realm bar none?

[Nurahk]

I'd confront you outside of your shop and ask you why you didn't allow dark Imperials.
If you bring up a reason, I would debate with you.
If you didn't, it would be prejudice and you'd learn to respect your fellow men.

[ThomPhoenix]

Yeah, I knew all those above. Explain nr 5 though. Define glory.

[Nurahk]

Define Glory?

Can you?

Raise the Empire up in the eyes of the public.
Is the best I can do.

[bilbous]

In other words your way or the highway? Would you bother to reveal your affiliation in the discussion or just lay me out with me being none the wiser? I might be most intractable, I might have clientele in the establishment that are your sworn enemies and I do not want it to be the site of a bloodbath, there might be any number of reasons.

[Nurahk]

I'd confront you outside of your shop and ask you why you didn't allow dark Imperials.
If you bring up a reason, I would debate with you.
If you didn't, it would be prejudice and you'd learn to respect your fellow men.

Of course I would reveal who I was.
See, this is how people read my posts.

Line 1: Nothing wrong there
Line 2: Good point
Line 3: Haha, If I ignore the rest I can get him there.

I'm not going to reply to your post any more than I already have, bilbous.

[lordraleigh]

I find it ironic that the people questioning the Dark Empire now are actually contributing to keep it on the spotlight.

[Nurahk]

@LordRaleigh:

Your point is...uhh..stupid...and bad...
This much free publicity is...umm...bad for us...yes <.<

[zanzibar]

ThomPhoenix, you've been such a jerk in this thread.  Eceutas is a bit new, so what?  Big deal.  Why are you picking on him so much?  IRC wasn't a big enough playground for you?

So if then I am a shopkeeper and I put a sign in my window saying "No Dark Imperials allowed" you would not enter even though I make far and away the best ale in the realm bar none?

Now, why would you want to do something like that?  (By the way, by posting something like that, you make it seem like you're just trying to upset people.)