Dark empire discussion

[Hwnae]

I won't say anything about how Draklar should act or what makes him tick, it's your character and not mine. But I want to avoid people reading this OOC information and using it IC without justification. That's why I prefer putting things you say about my characters in the proper context. If Draklar is the one to judge without knowing the situation .. that's his full right. I'm just trying to prevent others from following his example. I wish I could trust people here to keep OOC and IC separated but I know that's only a dream.

Now as to our problem with being percieved as evil ... well I've been getting the overall impression that the latest Planeshift trend is "Hate the Empire, they're evil!" A little opposition can make a game more interesting but half of Yliakum suddenly wanting to jump on the bandwagon and pick fights with the Empire is a bit too much and it's starting to create unpleasant gaming experiences. Like it was said already in the other thread, the large majority of these anti-imperials are newly created characters with no good RP reason to hate the Empire. I'm assuming this all started when people heard about the Dark Empire creating a military branch .. many people suddenly heard the words "Guard" or "Military" and the next conclusion they made was "War". There is nothing more annoying for a newly erected heavily roleplaying guild than being jumped on by almost every dueler and power leveler who thinks they can RP.

Also do keep in mind that we're not the ones who brought this whole ordeal onto the forums, we're just the ones tired of being called evil when there is no adequate reason and defending ourselves. I'm also not accusing you for starting it or Draklar for distrusting the Empire. The Empire is fine with enemies, as long as those enemies know how to RP and have their reasons, like Draklar does. Also staying in character and in-game doesn't work against those people who don't take their roleplaying serious and go out of their way to band Yliakum together against the Empire. They began by using OOC, both reasons and communications .. we're simply tired of sticking to the RP standards and are now 'fighting back' with their rules.

Final conclusion: Too many and poorly underbuilt enemies are the cause of our somewhat irritated attitude lately.

People should keep in mind that this is a game and a good hostility between characters is supported by an even better understanding and co-operation between players. I think this is something we should all learn to uphold more, myself included .. so I partially disagree. OOC discussion and communication is rather important in matters like this.

[Draklar]

I'm just trying to prevent others from following his example.

But through forums? What's wrong with role-playing not-so-perfect characters?

I think we should agree the obvious problem here is you're called "Dark Empire". But the question is how should people of Yliakum react to force with such name. Even today dark is associated with evil. Would you expect people in medieval setting to be more open-minded than those today? It's kind of tricky. As I understand now, you do have your reason for frustration, but there is some basis for people opposing the Empire (even if it is the narrow-mindness). I doubt anything will be solved through arguments on the forums. Those aren't exactly place where opposing opinions often turn into agreement ;) Fueling the matter is much more likely to occur. I think the best thing you can do right now is wait until it all passes. If it's how you describe it, it's probably just a fad.

Anyway, Draklar is actually apolitical (had to straighten things up a bit to fit the Enkidukai setting, rp explanation is kind of complex :P) so not much of an enemy to anyone. Just mistrust.

[Hwnae]

Nothing is wrong with playing not so perfect characters, Hwnae is far from perfect. A lot is wrong with using forum obtained knowledge as in-character knowledge but it always happens so I'd rather have them know my character's good sides along with his negative sides.

The Dark is misleading but it also has a lot of history behind it and I don't think anyone feels good betraying that history by changing the name.

And we'll just have to disagree on the problemsolving role OOC communication has then I like to think that some people do see things differently because of these topics .. else I wouldn't be appearing in them.

[Draklar]

And we'll just have to disagree on the problemsolving role OOC communication has then :P I like to think that some people do see things differently because of these topics .. else I wouldn't be appearing in them.

Fiiiine :P
I'll drop Draklar's mistrust towards the Dark Empire. Maybe it's not much, but always something, right?
RP excuses are as always easy to find *rolls eyes* At least it's done for the good of role-playing environment ;)

[Raleigh]

@Hwnae: The "Sarge that is tough with his troops but considers them as a family" isn't evil. It is just something from the old cliché of "Tough Sarges" that came from many war movies, so Hwnae shares some in common with these typical characters and therefore is cliché.

     And you should have threatened people with: "Do that again and I'll send you to a manning station in the Stone Labyrinths!" 

[Hwnae]

Hwnae is somewhat cliché, I won't deny that .. it's what makes him fun to play.

And I prefer my "You just earned yourself two days of Patrol duty at the Bronze Doors." I could actually send them off for that

[Nurahk]

Err, just to make a few things clear.

I know((, OOC and IC,)) who the Empire's enemies are, I'm calling a truce for the next couple days, those who are confirmed enemies have these two days to swear that they will not harm the Empire.  You do that, you go free.

The list won't be made public, so don't ask.

If somebody fails to swear an oath of non-aggression for OOC reasons, PM me.
If somebody fails to swear an oath for non-OOC reasons, I'll be taking actions.
Id somebody swears an oath and then breaks it, I'll be taking actions.

In the center case, I'll not act without the approval of the public.  This only goes so far, don't expect to get away with only sore wrists. (This is mainly incase I am, though I highly doubt it, wrong.)

In the last case, I don't care what the public thinks.  Breaking the oath means attacking the Empire, I'll defend my own and I'll not hesitate to make examples of people.

After the two day truce period, you'll still have a chance to swear the oath.

I believe I am being fair.

Note: If you have recently taken actions against the Empire, swear the oath even if you've decided not to attack.  My information is most often correct but, I'd much rather we be sure about this.
Also: Many of you think you are tricking me.  You're not.  I'm just loathe to spill blood.

And, as a closing statement.  If I can not avoid the need to make examples of people...Don't expect to get off easy.  It will not be quick.  I will be painful.

I'm most displeased that I am brought down to this level, all those who know me know that I try to solve problems in a diplomatic way.  This reduces blood spilled and enemies made.
This is not up for public discussion, the only chance of this being changed is by discussion within the Empire.

Again, I'd like to remind the people of Hydlaa that there are rumors of a threat rising up, the rumors may just be there to distract the Empire but, if they are true then we'll need to be united to deal with the threat.  I'll be most grateful for any help offered in dispersing the enemies of the Empire.

[Raleigh]

     Hopefully you won't be brought down to the level of doing pre-emptive strikes against those who supposedly are threats like the way a certain country does in the name of "democracy"... Of course you won't have access to the "army of freedom fighters fighting against a brutal dictator to free the people of the Middle East blablabla" rhetoric if you decide to do so

[Nurahk]

Heh, right.

All pre-emptive strikes will be open to criticism by the public.  If people are against it too much, I'll not do it.  Public apologies will be a requirement, of course.

[Raleigh]

Just a reminder. Something like the "War On Terror" isn't the kind of thing that make things easy for Public Relations...

Hopefully we'll see things like this happening in Hydlaa Plaza then 

http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/2005/03/march19f.jpg

(Just Change Dubya's face for Nurahk's face )

     Pre-emptive strikes are acts of aggression based on very arguable arguments about what consists on a threat, in fact you can point anything as being a threat, but wealthy guilds or guilds, once owning lands becomes possible, that have strategic resources on their territories, are always interesting targets for imperialist powers. So if the Empire starts doing this as an act of defense, chances are that any guild with significant power or wealth might be a "threat". Following the "attack first, ask later" also won't help to make people avoid claiming the Dark Empire as evil.

[Nurahk]

Hmm, this is only going to go on for maybe a week (depending on the activity of the enemies) and there will be, unless the Empire is attacked, absolutely no bloodshed.

If all goes well, there will be a few oaths sworn in private, hostilities will cease, and everybody will move one.

Worst case scenario is the Empire being attacked, in which case, who can really blame us for the bloodshed?

And, the most probably scenario will consist of the former with a few public apologies.

All in all, the most peaceful way of concluding this most unfortunate business.
I am the only person in control of who is declared a "threat", along with, of course, Sangwa and Natrina's counsel should she chose to give it, at the moment it is those who have planned to attack the Empire physically, and, only in extreme cases, spread rumors about the Empire.

I realize that some of my intel may be somewhat less than fully correct, therefore, unless there is no doubt, nobody will be harmed.

[Sangwa]

*Goes back to the PS Forums, hugs Karyuu and bows deeply over and over again apologizing for his absence.*

Raleigh's rhetoric would be marvelous, if his infinite attempts didn't make it funny.

Judging how we've managed our opposition in the past, I don't believe Nurahk had to even spend his time writing the previous post. Our confrontations have been quiet up until now.

EDIT:
Just to add that everyone's prone to suspicion.

[Raleigh]

*Goes back to the PS Forums, hugs Karyuu and bows deeply over and over again apologizing for his absence.*

Raleigh's rhetoric would be marvelous, if his infinite attempts didn't make it funny.

EDIT:
Just to add that everyone's prone to suspicion.

     If you mean with the last thing you wrote, that everyone is prone to suspicion of being a threat to the Dark Empire, then this will definitively start like a counter witch-hunt(counter because the first one was against imperialists because they are "evil"). But I wouldn't recommend this line of action, as it would only create an atmosphere of extreme fear. This "everyone's prone to suspicion" also made me remind of Soviet Union where "everyone's prone to suspicion of being a threat to the Communist Party", and you know what kind of implication such affirmation brings, if it was intended to be IC. Of course if that is not what you meant about what kind of suspicion you were referring to, then forget this.

     And regarding "infinite" attempts rhetoric, all this defense of the Dark Empire, all the PR stuff both IC and OOC and all the subsequent messages are parts of an "infinite" rhetoric attempt to remove the association of it with "evil", aren't they? But I won't say they are funny, I am not big into indirect ad hominens, Over.

[Sangwa]

All guilds promote themselves. At least all the successful ones. We are entitled to that, just as you are entitled to your opinion. However it's easily agreeable that we'd rather listen to dynamic sentences of promotion, that include facts and promises, than rantings of suspicion and hypothetical threats. It certainly adds to my point the fact that your hypothesis about our behavior have been proved wrong up until now, while our promises have turned into reward.
I'm not trying to shut you up. Dear lord, no. Just giving my opinion on your opinions.

Anyway, you obviously didn't grasp the meaning of the last sentence in my post. In fact, you interpreted it like I knew you would, considering your approach on everything related to the Dark Empire.
What I meant is that the suspicions you have on the Empire are able to be spoken towards most organizations. I do understand your focus though, it's not like any other has had half of our success and exposure.

[Feline Prince]

The general fact of the matter is people inclined to fight against big powerful organisations because it is seen as a threat to their individuality. And in Planeshift the biggest and most powerful is the Dark Empire.