The Winch -- What are they thinking?

[lordraleigh]

Bs, how long did it take for you to max out charisma?  4 days?  5?

I'd say 20 years in public relation activities like speeches, etc. And also 10 years leading an organization by pure charisma, without the need of using authoritarian methods. A really charismatic individual can convince lots people to embrace even one of the most inhuman and brutal ideas like  this one ( Easier if supported by a whole propaganda network of course).

Same goes for intelligence, although, I'd say moreso.  You shouldn't really be able to level intelligence noticably, but that's a whole other discussion.

If "Intelligence" means both intellectual capacity and knowledge on several general theoretical fields, it should be allowed to increase largely, otherwise it would require so serious development through logical games, etc. and have its effect based on the age of the character(younger ones have greater potential for increasing their intellect than adults).

[Krann Omins]

[to clarify lordraleigh-- tho i think you understood & chose to pretend you didn't for humor-- but just in case: I didn't mean my mention of 'testers first' to be interpreted to mean that EXCLUSIVELY testing is the first priority & that a person should ignore playing/roleplaying.
-- i was simply trying to convey that testing supposedly is everyone's 'primary role'--and that EXCLUSIVELY "rp"ing, the way some seem to be saying they do ignores their responsibility as testers & to a degree, ignores fairness to those players who spend time & effort on raising skills rather than arbitrarily assigning whatever they please]

[And Nurahk, would you mind making the following edit:

Your point is a good one but you shouldn't use testing as an excuse to become an amazingy powerful character.

To instead say "Your point is a good one but PEOPLE shouldn't use testing as an excuse to become an amazingy powerful character. "--seeing as the way it reads right now seems like i'm doing what you are describing as shouldn't be done]

* Krann Omins pats proteous on the back

[Nurahk]

Haha, you shouldn't either
I'm sorry for the confusion though, and instead of editing that one post let's just put it this way.

"You" is always a general you for me in debates.  I didn't mean it as an insult, it's just the way I speak.

If I'm addressing somebody specific, I use their name.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

anyone given any thought to the plus side of having a region not everyone can or will enter?

[Proteous]

The only time where that would be a plus, would be a map that new players would start at and leave when they reach a point at which they outgrow it. i.e. a training map so to speak. A map where players that have been playing for four years and still cant get to is rediculous!

[emeraldfool]

Couldn't you remove the lock-out feature just until the surge of people slow down?

[Induane]

I disagree with you eldoth_terevan.  While some may appriciate trying to communicate with moronic NPC's I always thought the quests should be about acomplishing things.  I don't mind a few games of "guess the phrase", but it gets old quickly.  Not only is it OOC as a trillian people have pointed out, but its downright stupid.  One of the problems I see is that in order to make the quests difficult they do not require doing actual things ingame very much, instead they make it difficult by making the appropriate phrase totally counterintuitive.  Instead of responding to the questions we all will end up asking, they only respond to a very specific and strange phrase in many cases.  Its the reason I quit doing quests.  I explored the whinch area using walktest instead.  Thats far more fun anyways.   

Honestly, fill the quests with more challenging puzzles ingame.  The hard part should be figuring out where to locate this or that, not what phrase do I use with what NPC to get the item or trinket or whatever.  If I wanted to play word games with extremely stupid AI then I'd write some qbasic Q&A game.

[Proteous]

Oh and one other thing, probably dealt with in another thread somewhere, but finding it is another thing.. When a quest gets disguarded for one reason or another, how long must one wait befor it can be gotten again? its just i been trying for the last 2 week to get a quest that was previously bugged that i disguarded. I ask because maybe i need it to gain access to the winch.. But i wouldnt know because there are no hints!

[Karyuu]

Yikes. Nest of bees, I'm telling you...

* Karyuu hands Xillix, Jeraphon, and Kerol some helmets.

[eldoth_terevan]

Oh, people disagree with me all of the time. But if it was that bad, I prolly wouldn't play. Peace.

[Under the moon]

* Under the moon sighs.

The problem is not with the quests. It is with the system they are contained in. The system of talking to NPCs is flawed, and has been from the beginning.  You simply can not talk to the NPCs -as- -your- -character. No amount of word similizing will help with that.

The Settings folk are putting a TREMENDOUS amount of work into trying to make the quests accessible to more than just one particular phase. But they simply can not come up with all of the word combinations and orders that mean the same thing. It is crazy to even ask them for it. What they need is a new system to build on, not this raft of sticks and twigs.

I love a good, hard riddle in a game. But I have likened the way things are done now to purchasing a Rubik’s Cube, then having to spend half an hour trying to rip the hard plastic wrapper off with your teeth.

Quests should be hard.

Entering  some areas should be hard, and getting back out again harder.

Fighting tough creatures should be very hard.

Making an NPC understand that you are asking a simple question should not be.

So yes, I am saying the NPC speech system should be scrapped. Before anyone starts screaming about all the work that would be lost in doing so, I give you two words: Molecular Blue.

[Jeraphon]

Yikes. Nest of bees, I'm telling you...

* Karyuu hands Xillix, Jeraphon, and Kerol some helmets.

It's all good, Karyuu. I'm glad people are actually discussing quests for a change.

[Proteous]

Though i do agree with you UTM that doesnt answer any of the questions regarding the winch and how to gain access.. I am currently frustrated because i know there are quests i have not done, but noone can tell me why the NPC's wont issue them to me.

[Ozydias]

I'm having the same problem as you Proteous.  Getting a bugged quest makes you mad enough but than not being able to get it back is even worse.  The quests for the most part are interesting and I love doing them.  However, they can drive you crazy with all the bugs and overall the quest system just does not work.  I haven't been able to tell any pattern in the amount of time that it takes you to attain the quest again.  It seems like it is completely random, but I could be wrong.  I just try to make a trip back to the npcs each day and see if I can get it back. 

I don't know how long it will be until I can finally do the Winch quest.  The funny thing is the npc that gives that quest made me do his other quests, which I had already done earlier.  It required me to do them over again because it had been so long since I had completed them.  Sure enough his other quest became bugged.  Now I am left to waiting until I can restart his first quests.  These quests are a great thing to do but unless the system to do them becomes less flawed I will have to take a break from them.

[Karyuu]

If anyone would like to make a Wishlist thread on "My Perfect Quest System," please feel free to. It will help out the development team a lot more than the current "This just doesn't work" pattern :] Remember, suggestions make complaints sound a lot better.