The Winch -- What are they thinking?

[Mordaan]

The thing that frustrated me a bit is, for those of us that jumped on quests before they were working properly (there's no way to tell before getting them if they work or not, unless your told so), we were advised to discard the quests and get them again.  Or in some cases, the only way to complete them was to discard them because the fix didn't work if you already had the broken quest active.  (Unless that is incorrect in which case I too was either misled or misunderstood).  Some of those quests, and now its apparent that those are one-timers, I haven't been able to get again.  I just went ahead and did them under another character but I can see from a character point of view why someone might find that scenario unacceptable.  I was very fortunate to get the winch quest on the first day, before it seems so many of these prerequisite quests were added, including those Mordaan has not and now will not be able to complete.  Its a bit of a mess at the moment and I can understand those that are really frustrated.  I know its  and all and it will all be ironed out in time, not to mention all this will eventually be irrelevant with wipes, but for now, seems only fair to have either a quest wipe/reset, or just make those one-timer quests, two-timers and allow those who fell between the cracks a chance at actually getting/doing them.

Well, I'm probably harsh saying misinforming, but certainly many were given the impression (and I think actually told) that their problems were down to a lack of completion rather than bugs or problems.  I'm not the only person who felt it took a while to burst through a bubble of a response akin to "there's no problems... you just simply haven't done the all the quests" that seemed to be prevalent at first.

Look, I'm not making any real accusations of misconduct or anything even close to that... it's not like I'm THAT bothered.. because it is ultimately just a game... and a free one too... which is very generous of the dev-team... and for that you all deserve no-end of respect.

Truthfully, every other bug in the game, over the space of a year, has not bothered me at all, no matter how unfair it was to me... but for some reason, this, contrasted to where the team seem focused judging on their output... has irritated me (at least ... as much as is possible for a free-game, from a generous dev-team.)

It just seems to me and many others who are in the same situation, that we've been told there have been fixes... and these fixes don't seem to have helped... not only that but some "fixes" have seemingly put us in a catch-22 on quests... and while we're sitting here on day 65 hoping our best characters can finally get into the Winch to explore the areas they deserve to explore (in comparison to our secondary chars / alts .. or even new chars)... we see new Dlayo's, a new PVP area, etc. --- all the while.. the apparent "fix" that occured still leaves plenty of us clueless.

Anyway... like I said, I'll keep my fingers crossed... and sincerely, wish the dev team the best of luck in fixing these things.  Sorry for ranting... I found PS addictive not to long ago, for all gameplay/roleplay reasons... and I'm not sure why (I'm not even bothered about power-levelling or getting chain-mail pants!!).. but this has been the only thing I've found spoil it for me. 

I wish I could do something to help, but even with access to the source-code... I wouldn't know what live data the code is having to work with and so would have to spend time to emulate everything I've done over the last 4 or 5 months!!

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Alright seriously you are all making up stuff and misinforming one another. If I post another post which is ignored I will just stop caring about the thread. The problems have been dealt with in certain ways that have caused other problems. Due to outcry we tried many different kinds of fixes, some of which helped some people and set other people back. l don't really think it is helpful any time someone starts any thought with "I know this is beta but . . . " <----you already answered yourself as best as anyone else can when you begin this way.

We provided a new alternative and the promise of more on the way and the promise of fixes. I need only get the message out to people still locked out of the winch PM me here on the forum with details about what you believe is keeping you out of the winch. I would like to troubleshoot with some more information. Nothing is transparent to me. I am a writer, all i can do is pester the people in power to fix this and grant you new means to enter.

Those locked out of the winch do not need a champion, there is a whole team working for them.

People who got in easily unknowingly exploited a glitch in the system it was never intended to be easy.

[bilbous]

It seems to me, talking through my hat, that there is something odd about the way quests are handled. I have not seen the code, and might not understand it if I did, but it appears that the npc can only respond to one quests keywords at a time and that people who have more are confusing the npcs. It would seem logical to me that when you receive a quest it tags a field in your character data and then when you talk to the npcs they check this field to see if you have the appropriate code needed for them to respond and if so they respond and modify that quests entry such that the next npc will know to respond to the next part of the quest. If it was done this way, continuing my wild speculation, then multiple quests could be run concurrently and not conflict with each other because they would be checking different entries in this quest field.

To the others: I have already sent my pm to Xillix and included which quests I could not proceed with, where I was stuck with them along with a list of quests I have completed and those still pending. I suggest you do the same. I received a nice reply and am waiting for my contribution to bear fruit and/or a request for further information. I am not expecting instantaneous results but do think I have helped to resolve the situation.

One thing I would like to ask about the other ways into the winch and that is are the current methods, both the new and original ones mutually exclusive? It would help to know that those who have completed the one could not complete the other if that is the case. I think it would prevent extraneous reports of "I can't do this quest" if people know from the start that they are excluded and why.

[Caarrie]

If you have access to the winich you cant get in with the other method as you cant even do that way to get in

[bilbous]

Thank you for the quick confirmation, it may prevent problems. I suppose in the future that might need to change if you are going to allow peoples world-paths to change, for instance a good and righteous citizen could get framed for some deed which would cause him to lose official sanction and have to seek out the underhanded way to escape to the next level or a bad dude might get religion and not be trusted to the old paths by the underworld. Those are considerations that need not be dealt with now but might be remembered when the game is more mature.

[Vengeance]

It seems to me, talking through my hat, that there is something odd about the way quests are handled. I have not seen the code, and might not understand it if I did, but it appears that the npc can only respond to one quests keywords at a time and that people who have more are confusing the npcs. It would seem logical to me that when you receive a quest it tags a field in your character data and then when you talk to the npcs they check this field to see if you have the appropriate code needed for them to respond and if so they respond and modify that quests entry such that the next npc will know to respond to the next part of the quest. If it was done this way, continuing my wild speculation, then multiple quests could be run concurrently and not conflict with each other because they would be checking different entries in this quest field.

This is the design.  It is not working.  One day it will work again.

[bilbous]

try adding a ; or moving a ,
It seems kind of like I am teaching grandma to suck eggs. No offense intended. Has it been narrowed down to a code problem or an sql problem? I'm just kind of curious.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

some who have taken the care to follow my advice (thereby affecting 140 individuals) may well find their troubles eased. For the rest of you please send me a PM.

[Hassadria]

some who have taken the care to follow my advice (thereby affecting 140 individuals) may well find their troubles eased. For the rest of you please send me a PM.

Yeah, listen to Xillix.
Thanks to her help, Miaua and me are now rid of (hopefully  ) all bugs that prevented us from entering the winch. So, don't give up and send your problems to her. 

Hassadria and Miaua

[McBane]

some who have taken the care to follow my advice (thereby affecting 140 individuals) may well find their troubles eased. For the rest of you please send me a PM.

What if you cannot get into the winch and cannot send a PM either? 

[steuben]

there is always irc

[Roko]

The winch is very hard 2 access since there are many players now. I personally have i quest remaining then i will be able to entre the winch... but this quest i know i will never get again (Chorsor)....mainly because i had discarded it ages ago... now im stuck and i get very frustrated at times becoz i know that i maynot be able to train my stats futher and also my magic ways... i propose that the developers make the winch availble to all users ... so gameplay will be more enjoyable to all... may be a fee at the entrance wouldnt hurt or just  1 quest to do to entre the winch... training is already hard, now mining is 2 and to make it worse the winch can only be accessed by few... please Developers make the game greater and more enjoyable to all, be fair ...this is the best game ive ever come across and it frustrates me to see simple errors making the game annoying... thank u ..

Rokotuiwai. 

[Karyuu]

Please follow Xillix's instructions and contact him.

And read this thread!

[neko kyouran]

merged to the other topic, as well, I can. 

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

If you cannot send a pm I suggest you become more engaged in forum discussions and learn more about the game before trying to contact me. I feel a greater need to aid the people who have done much in their efforts to get in to those who have done little. Odds are fairly good that if you cannot post a pm here you have also not done everything needed for the winch. I will of course aid anyone regardless.