Remove duels from the game. (This is not a joke.)

[Zan]

Being an 'evil' character shouldn't be about dueling at all ... I've yet to come across a good criminal character in the game. Evil in PS seems to equal to being a jerk and harming or killing anyone who gets in your way without bothering with the consequences. I've also seen those evil characters pick fights with well organised groups but then when they finally get the fight ... all they will accept is dueling and killing them one person at a time.

A duel is only what it is, a honorary agreement between two individuals to test eachother's strength and settle differences when all else has failed. Any other choice of /duel use is an OOC one and holds serious roleplaying dangers.

 An evil person will most definitely not duel .. they will stab you in the back or slit your throat while you sleep.

I wish people would use /duel for what it is and stick to roleplaying for killing other people and being evil.

Zanz is right that the PvP aspect is a major attraction for many of us. Those who love to PvP know that I'm right, they might not admit it but they enjoy knowing that their character is stronger than another or that their dueling tactics are better. They like the thrill of a duel and the victory afterwards. However they will look past a defeat, past the death aspect and shrug it off as a simple walk through the death realm. This annoys quite a few more serious roleplayers who do consider death to have great consequences.

And UtM .. you should get a solid place within the Dev team if you ask me, your ideas are all grand.

[zanzibar]

UtM for settings dev!

[lordraleigh]

@Zan: I know some of the "evil" characters you just described in Planeshift, and you are right about duelling. Still there is other type of "evil" as I mentioned that sadly seems rather common: Jerks that say/shout things to bother others and provoke conflict, asking for fights with their comments directed to other characters(And some times even directed at the players OOCly). Restricting duelling won't stop them. Instead will give them(and their sometimes equally jerkish players) one more reason to ask for fights as people that duel excessively will be punished: to screw with others by provoking fights as they'll be punished.

Also there is other type of "evil" character that sadly seems to be missing(or not, it's impossible to identify such characters unless their players tell OOC they are such): the "Smart Evil". One that is a respectable citizen of Hydlaa, that everybody loves, but that secretly plots and makes schemes for his/her selfish goals. "Evil" should be mostly secret and stealthy in Yliakum.

Not sure if @UtM is interested in getting a place on the settings team though.

@zanzibar: Slippery like soap, you are still running away from my main argument, probably because you cannot stand against it, you always reply to only the lees important part of what was written instead of all of it. Also Look your past actions and yourself at the mirror before accusing me of being a flamer.

[zanzibar]

Jerks that say/shout things to bother others and provoke conflict, asking for fights with their comments directed to other characters(And some times even directed at the players OOCly).

These are exactly the types I want to do away with.

@zanzibar: Slippery like soap, you are still running away from my main argument, probably because you cannot stand against it, you always reply to only the lees important part of what was written instead of all of it. Also Look your past actions and yourself at the mirror before accusing me of being a flamer.

Repeat your main argument in a concise form and I will respond to it directly.  And try to control yourself - personal attacks do not belong on this forum.

[lordraleigh]

Jerks that say/shout things to bother others and provoke conflict, asking for fights with their comments directed to other characters(And some times even directed at the players OOCly).

These are exactly the types I want to do away with.

Great, will you delete your main character or leave Planeshift then?

@zanzibar: Slippery like soap, you are still running away from my main argument, probably because you cannot stand against it, you always reply to only the lees important part of what was written instead of all of it. Also Look your past actions and yourself at the mirror before accusing me of being a flamer.

Repeat your main argument in a concise form and I will respond to it directly.  And try to control yourself - personal attacks do not belong on this forum.

At least I try to be a little more polite than you. As I said, I don't forget such things easily. It is just the law of action and reaction. And you are just dodging most of them anyways.

In other words, you have your head up your rear end and you can't stand to leave a thread untouched by spam.

Also I am tired of being a parrot and repeating what I just said. If you wish to deny them from the previous posts, I won't waste more time trying to point my arguments another time.

[zanzibar]

Great, will you delete your main character or leave Planeshift then?

Are you on crack?  I don't do things like that.  Why do you even bother posting if all you're going to do is flame people for no good reason?

At least I try to be a little more polite than you. As I said, I don't forget such things easily. It is just the law of action and reaction. And you are just dodging most of them anyways.

I've asked you to repeat it so that I can respond to it.  You did not repeat it, so you must have no argument to make.  Why are you asking me to respond to an argument you don't even have?

Also I am tired of being a parrot and repeating what I just said. If you wish to deny them from the previous posts, I won't waste more time trying to point my arguments another time.

I'm tired of you repeating yourself as well.  So why don't you stop?

[lordraleigh]

1)

Banning/Killing noobs cause they duelled near Harnquist is definitively fair and great way of introducing people to Planeshift.

This would give a great first impression about Planeshift and about what the GM Team works for.

In other words: A Great way of making people throw posts here like "GMs = Nazis" and to make noobs leave in great waves before they could experience PS and learn about Roleplaying.

2)
I gave a answer you, acted like if you couldn't understand

Surely, next step will be to kill/ban everybody that does not do quests or all the ones who commited the mistake of godmodding.

I meant that this could be just the first step on a succession of actions that would slowly lead PS to become what @Robinmagus described as a "RP-reich".

3)

Your ideas are on the same line of "Patriot Acts", although they are on fully different fields, and PS issues being much less critical than the Real World issues. Both are extremely restrictive and authoritarian ideas based on extremely biased assumptions.

Here the question is:

- Heavy-handed enforcement/measures to fight against duellers that are all "bad roleplayers" from your PoV

It will only change the way bad RPers operate.

Out there it is

- Breaking civil liberties to fight against "terrorists"(very subjective term)

---

*Added

Also characters that are nuisances(AKA: Jerks) should not be kept with free reign bothering other people in Yliakum. They disturb public peace even more if not as much as brawlers and violent troublemakers.

On the same line of comparison: Claiming all those who use and like the duel system are bad roleplayers is like saying all muslims are terrorists.

The "*Added" message is something you dodged during several posts. Because I have more than enough evidence that one of your characters is one of them(And that you bother people OOCly as well). Your proposition is fully biased on your self-interest and ignores points about whether what you do in game is good for Roleplay or not.

4) Just a restatement of the previous affirmations as you insisted to ignore the point about "jerk" characters(and players sometimes)

And for last, I think no duels would be a great way to RP(Or do it OOCly perhaps) a Jerk-type of character and of bothering both characters and players without facing consequences.

I am not blind to what happens in-game.

I will put everything about this suggestion in one single word: hypocrisy

* lordraleigh ignores the next bait.

[zanzibar]

1.  Easy answer:  When making a challenge, a warning comes up that says "Are you sure you want to fight here?  The authorities may arrest or kill you if you're seen."

2.  I don't see how this follows from stopping people from fighting in public areas.

3.  You're ridiculous.  First you say that I'm like George Bush, and now you're saying I'm like anti-Islamists.  When will you grow up?  If this action is heavy handed, so be it if it is necessary.

4.  Again, you're accusing me of things I'm innocent of.  Why are you trying to slander me?  Even if you have some idiotic personal grudge against me, just ignore who's saying what and instead concentrate on what's being said.  Are you capable of that?

[Under the moon]

* Under the moon frowns.

I hope you two know that you are the only two reading your posts most of the time. I would equate this aggressive banter to fighting in front of Harn's. In your own opinions, you are both right, but you will not convince the other of this. Give it a rest.

But I do say a big NO to having the GMs step in for one main reason. GMs don't want to be babysitters, and they can not be there all the time. In the future, PS may have thousands of players on at once, and GMs can not cover all of the areas that are not ok to fight in. In my system, I outlined two things that would specifically curb the need for GMs.

One was the /stopfight command that other players can do if they see the fight as disruptive and OOC. This -could- be used to troll, and some creep could run around trying to stop all dueling, but the system could be adjusted to curb that. Prhaps multiple /stopfights would be needed from more than one player.

The second is even more simple. The system already supports various PvP zones (though not in use yet), and a duel spamming trigger. Any place that is deemed as not good for fighting can not be fought in without alerting the guards. This includes just challenging, even if it is declined. I am in support of guards that can automatically ‘poof’ into the scene with special guard-only-glyphs, then ‘poof’ the offender outside the city gates with a stern warning. The ‘killing’ for duel challenging I do not like, as it goes directly against the Settings saying killing for a crime is rare. Porting to a random point in the middle of nowhere is a much better, and much more realistic (in a magic world, that is) way to do things. And, much more irritating for the spammer. Once again, the system would need some tweaking to work well.

And -NO- killing. The Settings say being put to death for a crime is rare, so rare it should be. Period.

[Karyuu]

I'm very close to throwing a padlock on this. Discuss the subject of the thread, not each other. Final warning.

[Volund]

For once...in ever....first time...in history...I sort of agree with zanzibar. HOWEVER saying duelist's are bad roleplayers, flamers and badmouths is a stereotype. I see alot of dimwits go around trying to be like the most powerful or liked roleplayers and or people in planeshift community. I also like the idea of guards, just not the "poof" thing, now in citys etc. dueling will be not allowed except for tournaments, arena. BUT out in the wilderness, outside of city limits there are no guards. At another certain area, anyone can kill anyone. Of course these are ideas but not bad ones. Though heh, /challenge is OOC, this is an MMORPG obviously at some point we reach a limit of roleplay tech. and have to use some OOC tech in the game for our little duels.

[zanzibar]

For once...in ever....first time...in history...I sort of agree with zanzibar.

Good to know you've been keeping track.  I've only known of you for a few days.

HOWEVER saying duelist's are bad roleplayers, flamers and badmouths is a stereotype. I see alot of dimwits go around trying to be like the most powerful or liked roleplayers and or people in planeshift community. I also like the idea of guards, just not the "poof" thing, now in citys etc. dueling will be not allowed except for tournaments, arena. BUT out in the wilderness, outside of city limits there are no guards. At another certain area, anyone can kill anyone. Of course these are ideas but not bad ones. Though heh, /challenge is OOC, this is an MMORPG obviously at some point we reach a limit of roleplay tech. and have to use some OOC tech in the game for our little duels.

It's a game and the devs can violate realism as much as they want.

Not everyone who duels fits the profile I and others have described.  However, there are far too many players who do fit this profile.

[Krann Omins]

  Well I'm now convinced; duels should be removed. In the long run that's for the best. At this point I'd like to start campaigning for this idea & saying it's praises.

If you don't understand why maybe you should re-read the entire thread... If you post saying you still don't understand, you should expect a snide dismissive response...

[dying_inside]

There will always be fools zanzibar. 
Removing a feature from the game wont change that. It will simply attract a new class of prick.

I'm not so sure.  I see a specific problem with an apparent solution.  What new problems do you see arising from this solution?

I'm not saying that a direct problem will result from this "solution", just a new one will inevitably arise at a later stage. 
I personally never leveld or trained enough to be any good at duels, the one I did fight was RP based and joking, I was promptyly flattened.. by a Fenki no less...

Nevertheless I dont think that removing a feature from the game woulld be all that productive. Fixing it would be alot more productive.

[zanzibar]

Fixing it would be alot more productive.

Why shouldn't we remove it until it is fixed?  The devs remove things all the time if they prove to be buggy.