Objects

[Ice_Stovo]

I was quite shocked when I read this in the dev section

the levels are build in blender. basically each level is one huge 3d object.

Isn't it too much disc and memory consuming. Just imagine if all common houses/objects will be created as some kind objects. For example some houses in hydlaa looks a lot alike. Don't you think that it will be better to create the house only once separately from the whole model and just put it into the map few times. Another example in Kada-El tavern there are 16 chairs, IMHO there will be better if the same chair will be putted into the tavern several times. How should it work?


Every other chair will have only 7 new variables.
  3 (x,y,z) possition
  3 (x,y,z) another possition used to rotate and even scale object (when engine will support it)
  1 object type (each object should have unique number)

Players will be able to place the objects into maps. Some application on the server should check whether the objects are placed correctly (multiple objects on the same place, flying in air) IMHO it is easier to update just a list of objects than the whole 3d model so it should be used for masonry and villages-building-tribes as well (multiple types of houses, each as an object)

So the 3D model should be only the ground and some special structures which are in whole yliakum only once (Laanx temple, BD fortess) all other things (Houses, trees, rocks...)
should be done in the object way.

Please should some Dev take a look at this and add a comment even if this is a bad idea. iI is just an idea and i am not able to do it by myself 

[Nikodemus]

It is called "duplicate linked" feature in blender, instead of just "duplicate". This is supposed to make CS draw all the duplicate linked objects like only one. This would be beautiful, but practice show its only theory ;P
In fact, we do gain performance bost, but not really that amaizing comparing to what it should be, although it is still worth of using.
I doubt things in Hydlaa are done this way, as its rather old... But this should be used for more recent maps and the old should be edited one day.

Someone has experiences with the "duplicate linked" feature?

[Cherppow]

Hi,

Yes, for duplicate objects we're using the same factory. Just different location/rotation data.

I was quite shocked when I read this in the dev section

the levels are build in blender. basically each level is one huge 3d object.

I'm not sure where you've read this. I think the majority of levels are still 3DS Max works, at least for now. Blender has been used for some parts. Basically the levels are huge 3D objects, but not-so-basically they're made of dozens of individual meshes.

[lordraleigh]

I know this idea may be a bit ahead of its time: but what about the devs creating some kind of specialized "map editor" instead of 3DS for their own use, and that also would bring the possibility for another type of devs contribute with this project: mappers.

Although on the short term it may slow down things, on the long term, from the way PS universe seems to be intended to become vast, having such kind of software could speed up the process of creating such maps. Just take a look at Unreal Editor for example(I know PS isn't a FPS and apparently doesn't use Brushes and CSG - I could be wrong about it though -, but this is an example of a "map editor"). Just a question for example: how much would Unreal 1 take more on development if their devs did not create an editor?

[peeg]

A full featured map editor isn't something the devs could do in a couple of hours ... It'd take -yes!- month or even years to code something usuable. I think it's wasted time that would be lost for PlaneShift itself.
Someone who really wants to contribute maps should learn Blender or 3DMax instead.

[Cherppow]

Hi,

I think lordraleigh's question is a good one. For the art devs it would definitely ease and speed up the overall work. It might also help us keep up with CS changes, as the editor export function could be modified, instead of adding changes to each and every map by hand. (Of course all the maps would still have to be re-saved.) But I also agree what peeg said that it's no simple task to make such editor.
I know many commercial games use these kind of editors. All the way from Warcraft, Doom and Quake to Unreal and NWN.
My opinion is biased, but I'd be voting for such editor.

[dying_inside]

I'd have to say that an editor like the one in Torque, or maybe just Terragen or whatever would be nice and these terrain are usually very impressive.

Problem is that  they take alot of time to develope and you have to weigh up waiting and slowing the progress down, because some of the dev team are  building it all, whilst at the same time make everything else, against what you would like to see, compared to what we have now.

[Nikodemus]

Why to make completly new editor? Wouldn't it be simpler to develop extension or something to already existing and powerfull 3D editing program? Like blender? I saw maps made in NWN editor and there was one mayor problem with them. They were a bunch of squares and rectanqles. Rivers were always turning by 90 degreeses, roads were similiar, and so the buildings built near the road. Even ground texturing was bunch of squares if i remember well. Of course everything seamless and looking right from technical side, but it looked like the editor wasn't capable of more complex designing.

Blender with some p-ython (did you know that if you write this word without "-" forum won't submit the whole post? ;P check it out if you don't believe, hehe and thanx Venge) scripts is the tool for working with CS and PS is CS project.  And it also isn't a problem to add to the file premade objects. The only problem there is you not having them if you aren't a dev.
Unless you wan't editor, which will work directly on the already exported stuff in CS format. And to avoid stealing, it shouldn't open in blender. Currently it can't.

(I know PS isn't a FPS and apparently doesn't use Brushes and CSG - I could be wrong about it though -, but this is an example of a "map editor").

I been always wondering on that. If i got it right, it's the tehnique of making objects drawn by functions, hm? This way you can't do many various details, which look as you wish (without complicating things too much) But if you are going to make a collumn, dome, or anything, what should have round edge, CSG is the answer.

[acraig]

Why to make completly new editor? Wouldn't it be simpler to develop extension or something to already existing and powerfull 3D editing program? Like blender

I think that this is the way we will have to go if we ever do something.  There is no way we have the resources to build something like blender first and then add on our required details.  I've not used blender very much myself so I am not sure how viable a solution it will be but I have hopes.