New Character Stat: Heroism (Legendary Status)

[zanzibar]

@emeraldfool:

i. Saying it's OOC doesn't make it OOC.

ii.  It would go by how old the character is, not how old the account is.

iii.  For some characters it won't make sense, but for the majority of characters and almost all active characters it will make sense and I think that the trade off is entirely worth it.  Also, character which are returning after a long absense aren't simply "starting from scratch".  They were active at one point and that does count for something.

iv.  We're talking about something esoteric, transcendental, and mystical.  According to the settings, each and every character has the potential to develope into a hero.  Since the only characters who will really stick out anyway are the ones who are active, I don't think that you have anything to worry about.

[John80sk]

Oh, and I forgot about my legendary mules

Hurmph, but anyways, I think older players do recieve a 'legend' bonus in a way.  People are generally much more willing to help them out and such... and it seems to me that wealth is already too focused into a small percentage of older players in PS.

EDIT: Such as legendary Ehatihen, the Kran scared of Clackers!

[Jackdaw]

For a character to have legendary status, what do they have to invest IC to acheive that status?

When I hear names mentioned in game and IC it doesn't have to do with that they have reappeared after years. You hear about achievments others have witnessed or their participation in more recent roleplay.

I disagree with the concept that it is better to accord legendary status to someone who may have been an obnoxiuos noob for two weeks and then show up 2 years later than to not give this to someone else.

[zanzibar]

We had some heroes in our real history, leaders, generals - just 2 examples. What was so special about their armor? Besides it was crafted well and was giving them more charizma... i gues nothing more.
Some people liked to think of these armors/weapons as magicial and it's why i think you are assigning to hero title some magical properties... But where in real it was fairy tale, why should it be different in fantasy game? People are free to make such legends, but there is no reason for them to be true.

We're talking about a fantasy game, so I think it's ok to have fantastic situations and ideas.  Think about how armor is used in the Iliad, especially Achilles'.  Think of how swords are used in the tales of King Arthur.  Heck, even castle of the Winds had Thor's Helm and an Amulet of Kings.

Besides, we have weapons which you can only use if you have enough agility or intelligence.  Why not have weapons you can only use if your character is of a certain age?

I just think that not only the title you are giving isn't best choice, but also what's behind it, strikes into consistency of the world too much. Why the heck if i want to give a "hero" weapon to some friend, he say he can't use it? Why not? Answer: because he did not play long enough. Very nice IC answer^^.

Instead of saying "Your character hasn't been around long enough", you could say "You aren't ready yet, but one day you will be" or "The sword will choose the right time for you to weild it.  Trust its judgement.".

For a character to have legendary status, what do they have to invest IC to acheive that status?

Nothing.  The assumption would be that if your character has been around for a while, then you've been doing things with it.

When I hear names mentioned in game and IC it doesn't have to do with that they have reappeared after years. You hear about achievments others have witnessed or their participation in more recent roleplay.

I often hear the names mentioned of people who have reappeared after long absenses.  "Did you hear that Phinehas has returned?" and so on.

[emeraldfool]

@emeraldfool:

i. Saying it's OOC doesn't make it OOC.

ii.  It would go by how old the character is, not how old the account is.

iii.  For some characters it won't make sense, but for the majority of characters and almost all active characters it will make sense and I think that the trade off is entirely worth it.  Also, character which are returning after a long absense aren't simply "starting from scratch".  They were active at one point and that does count for something.

iv.  We're talking about something esoteric, transcendental, and mystical.  According to the settings, each and every character has the potential to develope into a hero.  Since the only characters who will really stick out anyway are the ones who are active, I don't think that you have anything to worry about.

1. If not OOC, it's at least a terrible act of god-modding to say you're character is better/more renowned than someone else's. If you play a 8 year old kid, then leave PS and come back 2 RL years later, will your 8-year-old kid (or say, 12-year-old, or however you want to play it) is more important than an adult character that hasn't been around as long (OOCly)?

2. What do you mean by that? What defines a character's age? Why should those with enough creative skill be punished for playing a child (if that's what you mean)

3. I'm not sure what you're referring to (whether these are new points, or rebuttals to my own ones are confusing me...), but like Niko said, Hero-only stuff doesn't make any realistic, IC sense...

4. There's easily 40% of the playerbase that's been with PS for over a year, in some cases even more. That means 40% of the interactive population are heroes. I know we're supposed to imagine that Yliakum's full of normal citizens, but regardless of that it diminishes the idea of heroism for those who truly deserve it (and haven't just registered an account a few years ago and decided to go play Runescape instead, got bored, then came back...)

[zanzibar]

@emeraldfool:

1.  Think about a ring of the past.  If you give it to a new character, then will that character be more powerful than everyone else?  Not even slightly.  The same is true here.

2.  We're not talking about age -- we're talking about how long a character has been around.  There's a difference.

3.  Hero-only stuff makes perfect sense.  It makes as much sense as a sword which can only be equipped if you have a high intelligence or agility stat.  Not only does it make as much sense, but it would add more colour to the game because no amount of power levelling would allow you to use the item.

4.  Who said that you'd be a hero after a year?  And who said it would have to be so black and white?  As far as your Runescape comment, see point number 1.

[Jackdaw]

This starts to sound more like a legendary status as a civil service job.

It doesn't matter how well you do it, just how long you have held the position.

[Garris Shrike]

Well I suppose it shouldnt be a civil service, and an idea is it should only be awarded to those who have earned it with an act of bravery, and have been on for at least 2 years. Jut an idea that would narrow it down some more. 2 years could make some knowledgable, and legendary, heroes.

[lordraleigh]

Such things should be based on the character actions in game, not on the time a player remained in Planeshift. Some people pass their whole lives without being famous, others are famous even as children.

Also there is nothing that really would fall on the category of "heroic quests" right now in PS, and once they are available, they should be not quests per se, but some unique types of GM Events that never happen twice. They should have several challenges ahead and dangers as well.

For me to become a famous hero your character should do something "heroic", like the examples below

1) Classic - Save many lives, a town, a region or the world from something provoked by an "evil". I.E.: Be the main responsible for leading/defending Yliakum first level against a mass invasion from the Stone Labyrinths, etc.

2) Populist(Grey area) - Improve the life conditions of the lower classes, and become some kind of "hero" in their view. I.E.: Making charismatic speeches and giving beggars and poor people aid to get a new life, etc.

To become an infamous and known villain your character should do a "great evil" like

1) Classic - Kill/Steal/Beat innocent people, destroy villages/cities/etc, take over a town and become its tyrant, etc.

2) Populist(Grey Area) - Exploit the ignorance of the lower classes for a selfish goal by promising them a better life among other rhetoric and demagogies, etc.

Although being a known villain means people would rally against your character thus it would not be an advisable path for a smart "evil" character.

[zanzibar]

Obviously the characters who are active in game would be in the best position to take advantage of the new stat.

If the stat can be altered by actions, powerlevellers will exploit the system.  Plain and simple.  Things would have to be highly regulated to prevent exploitation.

[bilbous]

This might actually make sense if it resets to 0 every time your character dies and gets reduced whenever you do something unheroic like refuse a honorable duel or break a just law, other than that it is just silly.

[zanzibar]

This might actually make sense if it resets to 0 every time your character dies and gets reduced whenever you do something unheroic like refuse a honorable duel or break a just law, other than that it is just silly.

Bilbous, your ideas belong in a new thread..  They go against the reason for this wish.

There are many reasons why people would refuse a duel challenge.  We all know what they are.  It really doesn't need any explanation.  And there's no way for the server to distinguish between an "honourable" duel (whatever that is) and whatever the alternative is.  Unhonourable duel, I guess.  Not that that really makes sense.

As far as it reseting if you die, that just makes no sense.  The point of this is to reward people who have been a part of the community for a length of time.  If it resets every time you die, then you're turning it into something completely different.  If you see that added to the game, then start a new thread since it's a completely different idea.

[bilbous]

Well perhaps you need a better name for it then because I've got a scar I've had for 40 years and there is nothing legendary or heroic about it but it does have longevity. Seriously I think that if you want to reward legendary characters for adhering to PS over the years it would be better to have the NPC's have some dialog about them and perhaps for really significant contribution a quest for some item they lost in days gone by.

By giving such characters a decided advantage in this way you are just creating a Leet Crew that would seem to go against the philosophy of the game.

[neko kyouran]

This might actually make sense if it resets to 0 every time your character dies and gets reduced whenever you do something unheroic like refuse a honorable duel or break a just law, other than that it is just silly.

Bilbous, your ideas belong in a new thread..  They go against the reason for this wish.

Nope, this thread is fine for his statement.  You just have to ask him to state his opinion as to why he believes those issues he has given should be related and should be a factor in your proposition to reward characters that have been around longer with something.

The "why?" rule.

[zanzibar]

Well perhaps you need a better name for it then because I've got a scar I've had for 40 years and there is nothing legendary or heroic about it but it does have longevity. Seriously I think that if you want to reward legendary characters for adhering to PS over the years it would be better to have the NPC's have some dialog about them and perhaps for really significant contribution a quest for some item they lost in days gone by.

If you would like to see that in game, then start a new thread and stop dragging this one off topic.

By giving such characters a decided advantage in this way you are just creating a Leet Crew that would seem to go against the philosophy of the game.

Care to elaborate?

Nope, this thread is fine for his statement.  You just have to ask him to state his opinion as to why he believes those issues he has given should be related and should be a factor in your proposition to reward characters that have been around longer with something.

The "why?" rule.

No.  Bilbous's wishes are different from the one this thread was created for, and so they belong in new threads not this one.  Bilbous is dragging this thread off topic.