Author Topic: I came, I saw, I left.  (Read 6476 times)

Vengeance

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2007, 04:43:13 pm »
Zanah,

Thanks for your comments.  Sorry the lack of full-screen support on Mac OSX has offended you so much.  FWIW, full screen support in Windows and Linux has been in the game for 5-6 years.  I don't know why it isn't on the Mac.  Also FWIW, I don't really notice a different frame rate in windowed mode vs. full screen mode on my Windows box here.

In general, when gamers from pro games come online and ask if PS is good, I tell them "no" and "you probably won't like it".  People think I'm being cynical, jaded or sarcastic, but the fact is that PS doesn't hold a candle to pro games in terms of polish.  If you are used to polished games, you probably won't like PS.

In terms of our strategy, our coding team consists of 4-5 steady contributors and dozens of people who have contributed 1 or 2 patches and moved on.  Since the code base is very large and complex, the 4-5 long-time members tend to work on big features and new additions.  Prospects and contributors tend to work on small features and bug fixes--polish, if you will.  In other words, polish can come at any time and can be done a lot more easily than fitting big new features into the existing (big) framework, so the core team doesn't work on it much.

This pattern is quite consistent with other OSS projects.  Linus Torvalds doesn't work on making installers work better.  The gcc devs don't work on making a nice GUI for it.  The core KDE devs don't spend time making the calculator better.

Sorry if we didn't meet your expectations.  Please come back in a couple years and see what you think then.

- Venge

eldoth_terevan

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2007, 09:10:46 pm »
Am I missing something? I have been running my Mac client in full-screen mode since I started playing like a year or more ago. Don't tell me that someone spent all that time writing that post and didn't bother to check the setup program? WoW can have 'em...
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 09:18:21 pm by eldoth_terevan »

Roahn

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2007, 11:28:40 pm »
Am I missing something? I have been running my Mac client in full-screen mode since I started playing like a year or more ago. Don't tell me that someone spent all that time writing that post and didn't bother to check the setup program? WoW can have 'em...

Before you tell them to shove off to WoW, realize that their Mac might be different from yours. I've had no problems in the past on a G4 iBook, but on a new Intel MacBook, the PS client is completely unstable. Maybe his computer is different from yours.

-Roahn

eldoth_terevan

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2007, 11:44:24 pm »
Completely unstable is completely different than being unable to run in fullscreen mode. I have had fullscreen working on PPC and Intel Macs over here. Sorry if you don't like me telling someone to shove off, but there are good and bad ways to write criticism.

Roahn

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2007, 12:22:17 am »
Completely unstable is completely different than being unable to run in fullscreen mode. I have had fullscreen working on PPC and Intel Macs over here. Sorry if you don't like me telling someone to shove off, but there are good and bad ways to write criticism.

Not all computers are the same. Just because full screen works on yours, doesn't mean it will work on everyone else's.

-Roahn

Cha0s

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2007, 01:13:27 am »
There are in fact issues with fullscreen mode on the Mac. I can't debate that, as I have them myself (I'm on a laptop, if that has anything to do with it). But as Induane said, the underlying problem is not in Planeshift. If you can blame the software at all, you have to blame CrystalSpace, the engine that Planeshift uses. So that's technically out of the game's jurisdiction. Yes, people could go work on CrystalSpace as it is OpenSource as well, but then they wouldn't have time to work on Planeshift. ;)
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Garon

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2007, 04:56:01 am »
Take the OS X client for example, which lacks rudimentary features, such as full screen support.

Hmm... I must've been seeing things then.

*clicks on the Ps client on his dock*

*watches as the screen fades to black, and then the middle of it turns white, with black side pieces on the right and left due to differences in resolution*

*watches as planeshift comes up and loads*

*leaves and comes back, just to make sure he isn't seeing the impossible*

*hasn't changed to windowed mode, fully loaded and is playing the music from the start screen*

Seems to have full screen to me :P  Perhaps it's just that I'm on an Intel mac though.

dfryer

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2007, 08:21:53 am »
Fullscreen support works for me, else I wouldn't be able to get anything done.  Until we have intel binaries, I'm interested in bug reports on fullscreen failing on PowerPC Macs.

And if it doesn't work, to think that it is a 15 minute fix highlights a real lack of awareness of the issues caused by scale and complexity of software. 
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

Valorius Rageway

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2007, 09:18:54 pm »
Gameplay = 0 (Combat system fully flawed and still relying on player skills that are more difficult to master than the ones used in FPSes and on bandwith. Economy stills need balance. NPCs are very "smart". I forgot last time I used something with the current alpha game engine with dubious gameplay instead of /me and /my on RP)

I totally disagree. I think the combat system is just fine in principle, and needs only polishing and the implementation of ranged weaponry.

Not everyone gets to be an astronaut when they grow up. Men are NOT all created equal. Practice DOES pay off. It's ridiculous to think you should be as good a duelist or warrior as i am when i endlessly practice it beyond just 'powerleveling' skills.

As i've said time and again, mouse-click and watch combat is TOTALLY uninteresting to me, and is really circa 1990 level 'immersiveness'.

And really, with the advent of auto-attack, even clueless noobs have a decent chance to score a hit in a duel anyway because the attacks just auto-scroll at the attack rate of the weapons theyre holding, and because the combat animation doesnt work you have NO IDEA when the enemy is actually in the process of swinging.

Now THAT i'd like to see fixed!
Queen and leader of The Order of Daggers

Shamax

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2007, 07:42:10 am »
I can't blame Zanah at all for what he said.

However, I've noticed many contradictions from people in this and similar posts:

People keep saying that PlaneShift is "Alpha" or "Pre-Alpha". And yet, Luca Pancallo clearly states at a Crystal Space conference that it's a "Beta".

http://crystalspace3d.org/downloads/conference_2006/movies/ps_big_xvid.avi

People say how WoW is boring and has bad community. And yet, they have millions of "bored" subscribers who also constantly participate on the forums and have a great time. One of that "bad" community's members is a little 10 year old boy named Ezra, who is sick with terminal cancer, whom Blizzard recently invited to their offices and awarded him various items and a rare epic mount to brighten up his day. And most of the community supported him, aside from a few demented whiners who complained about him getting freebies.

Also, I'm noticing lately that PlaneShift community is vastly overrated with its "Role-Playing" veil. Many are rude and condescending or just plain uptight. Some developers label any complaint as whining and yet do plenty of whining of their own, whenever someone dares to speak out negatively about PS. RP-crazies crowd is all high and mighty, whining about everyone who doesn't agree with them, especially if they dare to like PvP too. Some people live in boxes and are so incredibly uptight that they start whining about typos and spelling. ::) And ironically, this game is still rejected by the nerdy D&D crowd. Apparently, this isn't nerdy enough for them.

People say how PlaneShift isn't meant to compete with commercial projects like WoW. And yet competing with commercial projects is exactly what Luca Pancallo clearly states in his CS conference video.

PlaneShift community bashes and blames WoW every single time it is compared with PlaneShift. And yet, in his early interview at GameSurge.com Luca Pancallo clearly states that he is excited about every game that Blizzard comes out with, including Warcraft.

Was Luca lying to the viewers at CS conference just to look better in public or are people lying here right now?

It's true that it's been years since PlaneShift3D started, nearly 8 years to be exact, and even longer, if you count the initial commercial attempt in 1992, which was rejected by the publishers.

You can make all the excuses and arguments in the world for how developers aren't to blame and how they do it on their free time because it's a hobby etc. And that's all fine and dandy. But it doesn't change the fact that the state that the game itself is in leaves a lot to be desired.

This isn't bashing of PlaneShift developers but can any of you honestly wait 8 more, 20 more, 40 more years? Life doesn't stand still, you know. Luca is already 32 years old. At least be realistic and don't lie to people on camera calling it a "Beta" or that it competes with commercial projects like WoW, DAoC, Everquest etc.

And no, I'm not demanding anything, so don't offer me to sign up for the team. This is just an observation on the game itself, regardless of developers being free of any obligations. Remember, you're putting the game out free to the public instead of playing something in your closed group behind the scenes. The game depends on the players themselves. Without them, PlaneShift doesn't exist.

I'm sure some people will flame me for this, so flame away, I don't care. I wanted to say this for a long time. 8)

On a completely Unrelated Note:

blibous, I deleted your PM without reading it. You should've known that new posters can't send new PMs or even replies, so if I know I don't have a chance to reply, I won't read what you said. If you have something to say to me, say it in public in a relevant topic or don't say it at all. No hard feelings at all and thanks.

socia

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2007, 08:37:17 am »
Luca is director, if he makes such statements, than yes Planeshift is going to be or already is in Beta.
If he says that whey are going to compete WoW, than it's true ;)

hitancrias

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2007, 12:10:15 pm »
People keep saying that PlaneShift is "Alpha" or "Pre-Alpha". And yet, Luca Pancallo clearly states at a Crystal Space conference that it's a "Beta".
I guess 'alpha' would indeed cover the stage of the project better then 'beta' does. It's just a name, no big deal.

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Also, I'm noticing lately that PlaneShift community is vastly overrated with its "Role-Playing" veil. Many are rude and condescending or just plain uptight. Some developers label any complaint as whining and yet do plenty of whining of their own, whenever someone dares to speak out negatively about PS. RP-crazies crowd is all high and mighty, whining about everyone who doesn't agree with them, especially if they dare to like PvP too. Some people live in boxes and are so incredibly uptight that they start whining about typos and spelling. ::) And ironically, this game is still rejected by the nerdy D&D crowd. Apparently, this isn't nerdy enough for them.

IMO most of the devs are quite open to complaints. That's why they created this forum section. Whining about whining is usually done by players.
It's true, hardcore RP-ers often complain PS is not strict enough. RP is usually not enforced but rather encouraged by things like the character creation system, GM events, quests with multiple endings and the faction system. There's practically no RP police. Some people like it that way, others don't, I see no irony.

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People say how PlaneShift isn't meant to compete with commercial projects like WoW.

I rarely hear 'people' say so. PS is meant to compete with commercial games in the end. It's simply uncapable of doing so as of now. But since it's still in developement, that might change sooner or later.

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PlaneShift community bashes and blames WoW every single time it is compared with PlaneShift. And yet, in his early interview at GameSurge.com Luca Pancallo clearly states that he is excited about every game that Blizzard comes out with, including Warcraft.

Was Luca lying to the viewers at CS conference just to look better in public or are people lying here right now?

That's a rather unbased generalization. Some PS-players also like WoW, others don't. I don't see how that has anyting to do with lying.

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It's true that it's been years since PlaneShift3D started, nearly 8 years to be exact, and even longer, if you count the initial commercial attempt in 1992, which was rejected by the publishers.

You can make all the excuses and arguments in the world for how developers aren't to blame and how they do it on their free time because it's a hobby etc. And that's all fine and dandy. But it doesn't change the fact that the state that the game itself is in leaves a lot to be desired.

Nobody is arguing with you here. Of course the game leaves a lot to be desired. That's why we have a wishlist of over 100 pages. I guess the thing you want to say is that the developement is going pretty slow. Well, maybe it is, but complaining about it won't change it.

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This isn't bashing of PlaneShift developers but can any of you honestly wait 8 more, 20 more, 40 more years? Life doesn't stand still, you know. Luca is already 32 years old. At least be realistic and don't lie to people on camera calling it a "Beta" or that it competes with commercial projects like WoW, DAoC, Everquest etc.

I'm no dev, but I guess the devs keep working on PS as long as they enjoy doing so. I doubt any of them expects PS to become as popular as commercial MMORPGs in the next few years. You're right that it should be made more clear to potential new players that the game still lacks a lot of features. The, 'about' section on the main page is a bit misleading because not all things mentioned are implementated.

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I'm sure some people will flame me for this, so flame away I don't care. I wanted to say this for a long time. 8)

The planeshift community likes PS even if it is not able to compete with commercial games on many points. Some love it because it's free, others because of the community, some because of the original settings, others might simply like to be part of something in developement. Most of them are grateful to the devs for making it, and allowing us to enjoy it for free. If new people complain about the game being unfinished or that developement is to slow, they jump in defence of the devs by saying things like "you're free to go play WoW if you don't like it here". Sometimes  the flames get up, but usually I think it's not so bad.

Just curious, do you consider my post a flame?
Do you consider the guy who started this thread to be attacked unreasonably?

I think not. I don't consider telling people to "have fun with WoW" when they already stated they are leaving, to be flaming.
Hitancrias. Herbalist. Explorer.

RayvenD

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2007, 12:53:10 pm »
Last I checked, I was part of the nerdy D&D crowd....guess we don't all reject it lol
Let it whip!

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eldoth_terevan

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2007, 09:42:06 pm »
I am a D&D nerd (started when there were only the little beige books and everybody painted miniatures) and I don't reject it.

bilbous

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Re: I came, I saw, I left.
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2007, 09:48:41 pm »
Woohoo World of Greyhawk, Gary Gygax, yippie!