Author Topic: If Planeshift intends to be original...  (Read 8440 times)

Raleigh

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If Planeshift intends to be original...
« on: May 10, 2007, 10:51:18 am »
It should get rid of all the old and beaten fantasy clichés, like the ones pointed on the article(And the reason why I'm not big into fantasy), this is about the fantasy genre as a whole, not only games:

http://scifimedia.blogspot.com/2006/09/fantasy-cliches-and-why-i-want-to-kill.html

Here is the short list:

  • Racial Determinism: "No racism" and "No 'evil'/'good' race" already is a step forward, but most of the Planeshift races still have stereotypes, fortunately not so strong as the ones in most fantasy books. Why not make a diaboli that is honest and trustworthy for example? Of course this also relies on players not following these stereotypes
  • The Chosen One Syndrome & The Epic: Fortunately it's out of PS, there's no way someone can become a savior and neither there is a mention of those in Planeshift Settings, also there is no "Evil Big Lord".
  • Authority Worship: For the people who insist on claiming "government is good", etc. This is one of the largest clichés of the genre, and really, it sucks. The brief mentions of the existence of crooks here and there on the Settings - Government Page information put it away from that a little. It doesn't have to follow "1984", neither it has to follow "Utopia"
  • Boredom With Eurocentrism: Why people insist on dismissing any  slight reference to things from other cultures as OOC? Making things slightly inspire from multiple cultures isn't a bad idea. Planeshift seems to be going more or less on the right track here, as except for the Ylians, the other races seem to draw a bit from other RW cultural basis: Xachas from the mesoamericans(aztecs,etc), Enkidukais from some kind of Middle-Eastern nomad culture and so on

I could mention more clichés beyond the mentioned ones on that blog, but they are already on the following site:

The Grand List of Fantasy Cliches

P.S.: Perhaps the author of the first article mentioned is right when he says:

Quote
Perhaps the problem is the fantasy audience. Perhaps they just want the Lord of the Rings re-told in slightly different ways over and over and over again.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 10:58:04 am by Raleigh »

Annah

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2007, 01:05:39 pm »
Racism? It's not a cliché, it's reality for some.
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LigH

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2007, 01:20:48 pm »
It is good to want to be "original".

It is extremely hard to be different enough to be referenced instead of reference anything.

On one hand, it takes a maximum of knowledge of famous originals to avoid; on the other, it takes a maximum of creativity to make new as well as widely accepted figures.

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LARAGORN

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2007, 01:22:56 pm »
Racism? It's not a cliché, it's reality for some.

I think the point here is that racism dosent need to be added into every fantasy game, as it ussually is now.

Racism is very real, why should it be in our fantasy worlds that are created to escape reality?

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Illyria

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2007, 04:08:32 pm »
 :D It thought it was Soooo cliché to mention clichés when they are made
 :-[ Oh NO! I just did it!

(Just want to say that Clichés aren't always bad, cause theat would kinda be a cliché :P )

ThomPhoenix

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2007, 04:38:36 pm »
What stereotypes?
I see nowhere written in stone that Diaboli are untrustworthy and dishonest.
They tend to be unreliable sometimes, but it's certainly not something you should tie yourself blindly to.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 04:43:21 pm by ThomPhoenix »
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Grizzlyus

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2007, 05:06:03 pm »
can not say i have seen much racism in game ( i am honest trustworthy Diaboli btw )  \\o//

even so if there was would it be bad - you need darkness to highlite the light  ;D


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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2007, 06:06:38 pm »
Steryotypes are fun. I don't think planeshift should use the usual steryotypes but they are fun because they give guidance RP wise and a sense of humor to procedings. Like Krans being dumb... Everyone picks on them (ba dum csh).
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Parallo

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2007, 06:55:30 pm »
Eurocentrism? Look at the game. We have longswords and claymores but no katanas or tantos. We have dwarves and elves but no mothra or godzilla. Thats the way the settings are and the way the game looks and to be frank I couldn't care less what the culture is like. Just so long as there is continuity, and the stuff Irick had seemed to be totally out of the blue and not very PS. Granted it could fit in but then again so could alot of things but that would abolish the continuity.
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Polecat

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 08:14:57 pm »
Quote from the first link on fantasy cliches:  "Fahfrd & The Gray Mouser by Fritz Leiber is a notable exception."

I recently read the 6 book series Swords and Sourcery about the above, it's dated but held my attention for... erm.. 6 books.

I agree that most fantasy games are stereotyped but that is why most people play them rather than sci-fi for example.  If the game moves too far away from the "norms" it risks being sidelined.  Ther are games that have other themes within this genre, e.g. Conquer Online is very Eastern rather than European.


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Raleigh

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2007, 08:35:48 pm »
I agree that most fantasy games are stereotyped but that is why most people play them rather than sci-fi for example.

The truth is... most people just get accomodated from seeing the same thing over and over with some small changes here and there... and like this over innovation, over the new, that is the same reason why there is very little innovation on most game genres(specially on FPSes that mostly are just remolded versions of Quake, for example), the consumers prefer to do it, the market follows...

Quote
Perhaps the problem is the fantasy audience. Perhaps they just want the Lord of the Rings re-told in slightly different ways over and over and over again.

Of course Planeshift does not, and should not base its Settings on what the "consumers" prefer.

Eurocentrism? Look at the game. We have longswords and claymores but no katanas or tantos. We have dwarves and elves but no mothra or godzilla. Thats the way the settings are and the way the game looks and to be frank I couldn't care less what the culture is like. Just so long as there is continuity, and the stuff Irick had seemed to be totally out of the blue and not very PS. Granted it could fit in but then again so could alot of things but that would abolish the continuity.

Eurocentrism is more than about swords, and katanas and such became too "mainstream" nowadays to sound original as well, in my opinion. And the same way there is no godzilla(overused eastern thing) or mothra, there aren't trolls(this is arguable...), fairies, unicorns and many other overused elements from european culture and folklore. The real deals lies in, as the article said, creating an unique culture based from one or several cultures instead of just copying and pasting european culture.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2007, 08:37:39 pm by Raleigh »

Jeraphon

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2007, 09:43:26 pm »
Quote
Why not make a diaboli that is honest and trustworthy for example?

You're right that it's written nowhere in the settings that they're all dishonest and untrustworthy. Part of the problem was a distinct lack of Diaboli NPCs around which to base any example. We have some now, and yes there is a mix of good and evil in there.

AendarCallenlasse

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2007, 12:54:43 am »
Personally if a fantasy book didn't have an epic story, a main character that was a savior, no racism, and no evil group/villian to hate I probably wouldn't read it.  It sounds quite boring.

And furthermore, there are no fantasy cliches.  Fantasy is classified fantasy because it contains certain elements that define the genre.  If they didn't have those elements it wouldn't be fantasy.

You could compile a list of "cliches" twice the length of those lists about every genre in existance.

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kougaro

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2007, 01:09:12 am »
Just a lttle comment about "racism" in fantasy and in PS : what we call "racism" in real life has nothing to do with the existence of races in a game like PS.
Racism in PS world would be something like : "this diaboli is inferior to me because his skin is darker than most diabolis"

The existence of several races in a game has nothing to do with racism. If tomorrow, some enkidukai arrive on Earth from an ufo, would you say they are the same race as human?

P.S : one of the reason i play PS is because it is very original, and i think there is no clichés in PS.

AendarCallenlasse

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Re: If Planeshift intends to be original...
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2007, 01:18:31 am »
Just a lttle comment about "racism" in fantasy and in PS : what we call "racism" in real life has nothing to do with the existence of races in a game like PS.
Racism in PS world would be something like : "this diaboli is inferior to me because his skin is darker than most diabolis"

The existence of several races in a game has nothing to do with racism. If tomorrow, some enkidukai arrive on Earth from an ufo, would you say they are the same race as human?

P.S : one of the reason i play PS is because it is very original, and i think there is no clichés in PS.

Racism based on the darkness of skin?  Sounds very much like racism in our world.

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