If Planeshift intends to be original...

[zanzibar]

Just a lttle comment about "racism" in fantasy and in PS : what we call "racism" in real life has nothing to do with the existence of races in a game like PS.
Racism in PS world would be something like : "this diaboli is inferior to me because his skin is darker than most diabolis"

The existence of several races in a game has nothing to do with racism. If tomorrow, some enkidukai arrive on Earth from an ufo, would you say they are the same race as human?

P.S : one of the reason i play PS is because it is very original, and i think there is no clichés in PS.

I'm with Aendar on this one.

[Raleigh]

The type of racism I was mentioning is the:

Orcs are evil
Elves are good
Drows are evil

and so on... these are the extremes of racial stereotypes, to judge the morals of an individual by his/her race is definitively a form of racism. To say all dwarves are drunkards is another one. If you readed the first article from the link you would get it:

@Aendar: The question is not about racial prejudice among the races in the history, it is about the author of it stereotyping the races on the history with several typical overused archetypes. Why not beat a whole "evil" group of intellingent power-hungry people that struggle for power among themselves as well instead of the typical "Evil Lord of Doom" with his brainless minions? Why not have hundreds, thousands defeating this group instead of a single godly character?

And if your definition of fantasy is "Anything that looks almost the same as Tolkien", then you should perhaps expand your horizons on it.  There are fantasy cliches, and fortunately there are books on the genre that don't insist on following them so much. It is something like FPS: while we have thousands of variations of the same old Doom and Quake gameplay, some few(like Thief Series) stand in the middle of the clones.

The mark of LOTR on fantasy will take much time to fade completely and open more space for more originality...

Now I won't mind if you like to play or read multiple variations based on the same model of LOTR, just know that some people like to see different things, and get bored from the overused cliches.

[Valorius Rageway]

It should get rid of all the old and beaten fantasy clichés, like the ones pointed on the article(And the reason why I'm not big into fantasy), this is about the fantasy genre as a whole, not only games:

http://scifimedia.blogspot.com/2006/09/fantasy-cliches-and-why-i-want-to-kill.html

Here is the short list:

• Racial Determinism: "No racism" and "No 'evil'/'good' race" already is a step forward, but most of the Planeshift races still have stereotypes, fortunately not so strong as the ones in most fantasy books. Why not make a diaboli that is honest and trustworthy for example? Of course this also relies on players not following these stereotypes
• The Chosen One Syndrome & The Epic: Fortunately it's out of PS, there's no way someone can become a savior and neither there is a mention of those in Planeshift Settings, also there is no "Evil Big Lord".
• Authority Worship: For the people who insist on claiming "government is good", etc. This is one of the largest clichés of the genre, and really, it sucks. The brief mentions of the existence of crooks here and there on the Settings - Government Page information put it away from that a little. It doesn't have to follow "1984", neither it has to follow "Utopia"
• Boredom With Eurocentrism: Why people insist on dismissing any  slight reference to things from other cultures as OOC? Making things slightly inspire from multiple cultures isn't a bad idea. Planeshift seems to be going more or less on the right track here, as except for the Ylians, the other races seem to draw a bit from other RW cultural basis: Xachas from the mesoamericans(aztecs,etc), Enkidukais from some kind of Middle-Eastern nomad culture and so on

I could mention more clichés beyond the mentioned ones on that blog, but they are already on the following site:

The Grand List of Fantasy Cliches

P.S.: Perhaps the author of the first article mentioned is right when he says:

Perhaps the problem is the fantasy audience. Perhaps they just want the Lord of the Rings re-told in slightly different ways over and over and over again.

I disagree with every single point in your post.

[Vengeance]

*yawn*   Whatever...

[Raleigh]

*yawn*   Whatever...

Is this the say of Planeshift Development regarding the question of originality?

Or is it something else?

[zanzibar]

*yawn*   Whatever...

Is this the say of Planeshift Development regarding the question of originality?

Or is it something else?

I don't think such things are meant for us mortals to know.

[LigH]

I have to add an important, but a little dangerous thought (call me "The Devils Advocate" for this specific topic):

Racism in a roleplaying game - why not?

As long as it is IC. And it happened before. And it was very successful in a specific case (unfortunately a bit out of control in another)...

At least, it is a usual reason for a guild war. And if that guild war is played well as a roleplay ... hey, then it is simply a part of this virtual world!

Who of you "midbies" and "oldbies" did not enjoy Dwarvesbane vs. Dwarven Star?

And you "newbies", read about it, ask people about it. Learn how to play a racistic conflict, without being racistic in real life.

[Parallo]

I enjoyed it to a point. My dwarven character at that point was a miner and not a warrior at all. In other words I was a defenceless victem and eventually it led to me losing interest because I couldn't leave the upstairs of the tavern. I could have asked to be excluded but that would be a bit strange from an rp point of view and I could have leveled up but that would have been OOC. I ended up leaving the game for a while instead.

[Feline Prince]

Yeah someone like that would just while away and die if kept in captivity anyway, twas a shame you left the game abit over a single rp, though its sounded very big from what i have heard. Racism has its place just as much as murder and such. Though if it is done badly it can be awful. Anything done well is good. Somthing origanal done badly can be good also though.

[Raleigh]

I enjoyed it to a point. My dwarven character at that point was a miner and not a warrior at all. In other words I was a defenceless victem and eventually it led to me losing interest because I couldn't leave the upstairs of the tavern. I could have asked to be excluded but that would be a bit strange from an rp point of view and I could have leveled up but that would have been OOC. I ended up leaving the game for a while instead.

Offtopic: About dwarvesbane...

Yliakum isn't an anarchic mob rule where anybody with enough power can do anything without fearing any kind of authority of law. This is the main problem behind these "racist" roleplays, it is not about Settings, it is about realism. I could "roleplay" a squadron of powerlevelle serial killers slaying everybody they met with constant /challenge, but that would ignore completely the fact that there is law enforcement in Yliakum. If you want to refuse considering it on your "roleplay" because it wasn't implemented yet, you can refuse that there is any economic activity besides mining, looting mobs, crafting and metallurgy and that there are no other weapons besides swords, daggers and axes. Same way you should immediatelly refuse the *cough* "uber 1337 mind control thingie" constantly employed on such "roleplays" as well.

[zanzibar]

I forgot about Dwarvesbane.  God they were annoying.

[Garon]

Racism? It's not a cliché, it's reality for some.

It's a cliche when ALL members of a race act in one way or another, especially in an integrated society such as this one.  It's understandable that members of a certain village or tribe might act similar, maybe even of a country--that's culture based. However, Yliakum and many other fantasy societies are integrated ones, with elves living with humans and living with dwarves, etc. I think that's what Raleigh meant, much less so then the racism of one group hating another (which has also been defined as out of the context, although I could see it as IC as long as it isn't taken too far).  Especially in a society where you can grow up in other race's towns, for instance how Garon grew up in what was mainly a dwarven stronghold, and has only recently been learning tact and the like.

[Valorius Rageway]

I enjoyed it to a point. My dwarven character at that point was a miner and not a warrior at all. In other words I was a defenceless victem and eventually it led to me losing interest because I couldn't leave the upstairs of the tavern. I could have asked to be excluded but that would be a bit strange from an rp point of view and I could have leveled up but that would have been OOC. I ended up leaving the game for a while instead.

Yes, god forbid you actually train...

I enjoyed it to a point. My dwarven character at that point was a miner and not a warrior at all. In other words I was a defenceless victem and eventually it led to me losing interest because I couldn't leave the upstairs of the tavern. I could have asked to be excluded but that would be a bit strange from an rp point of view and I could have leveled up but that would have been OOC. I ended up leaving the game for a while instead.

Offtopic: About dwarvesbane...

Yliakum isn't an anarchic mob rule where anybody with enough power can do anything without fearing any kind of authority of law. This is the main problem behind these "racist" roleplays, it is not about Settings, it is about realism. I could "roleplay" a squadron of powerlevelle serial killers slaying everybody they met with constant /challenge, but that would ignore completely the fact that there is law enforcement in Yliakum. If you want to refuse considering it on your "roleplay" because it wasn't implemented yet, you can refuse that there is any economic activity besides mining, looting mobs, crafting and metallurgy and that there are no other weapons besides swords, daggers and axes. Same way you should immediatelly refuse the *cough* "uber 1337 mind control thingie" constantly employed on such "roleplays" as well.

You seem to harbor much ill-will to these 'power levelers' (which i would define as people that actually train hard). The way i see it based on actual in-game observation, "the law" is whoever is willing to spill their own blood over a cause they believe in. Invariably then, it tends to be these same-said 'power levelers' that defend the weak and punish the wicked in yliakum.

There is no functional or effective practical gov't or LE in Ylaikum anymore than there is a tooth fairy. Short of agravating Laanx(into a invite spam kill), you can walk around killing anyone you want as long as they accept your challenge.

[Karyuu]

[...] My dwarven character at that point was a miner and not a warrior at all. [...]

Yes, god forbid you actually train...

God forbid someone has a character that doesn't fight...

[Valorius Rageway]

My dwarven character at that point was a miner and not a warrior at all.

God forbid someone has a character that doesn't fight...

They should not be in a guild that will expose them to a condition of such flagrant vulnerability then. Once a war starts if you can't fight, you are a statistic waiting to happen (again and again, hehe).

It's like real life. Sure, a college professor (as one of a myriad of examples) doesnt have to know how to fight...but if he's mugged (or worse) on his way to his car after class, well, like i said, he's a statistic waiting to happen. Heck, in PS the devs have given 100% blanket protection from nearly all crime(in the form of the decline challenge option), but even that does not protect one from a declared war.