Library books.

[Draklar]

(or do you prefer people clicking all over the place every 5 pixels to see if they find something? As it is now)

I don't know. I found it quite intuitive that if I want to see description of a bottle, I click on the bottle. If I want to read description of a painting, I click on the painting. If I want to read description of a bench... Well guess what I click on? I don't think it's the game that misses something here; it's the players.
But no, perhaps it's normal thing that every object having something special about it (numbers or whatever) by absolute coincidence takes every character's attention. Surely that's the way to do it. Just about as right as Neverwinter Nights, where by "coincidence" the only barrels and crates that would get highlighted were the ones, which actually had something inside.
Most (if not all) stuff that stands out is supposed to have a description. Lookout towers, buildings that stand out architecture-wise, various small objects placed around, statues, other bits of public use. How can this be so hard to figure out is beyond me.

Things that actually have description (bookshelves don't) can be examined from way beyond 2 meters (it's only normal buildings and statues can). Do check that out.

[Nikodemus]

I would click on the bottle if I have been sure i get description, but what i get instead is waiting, during which i wonder if the description will never come, coz it just isn't there. Or it won't come because i'm trying to click some pixel, which won't give me description. Or i'm just too far.
So I don't know what the problem is, but as the bottle is supposed to have description, I move closer, click somewhere else and in the end, when it turn the bottle did not have description, I'm really disappointed and most likely won't try to seek any other description of any other object.
I'm already very annoyed when I try to target someone, I wait (because of lag) and what i get? Nothing. How long should i wait to click again? Will the packet with description come? But the character already ran away and I'm left with nothing.
Trying to get description from a simple object you waste 20 seconds doing in fact nothing.

I'm not convincing to highligh only boxes, which hide something. If everything is supposed to have description, there won't be special boxes, there will be ability to be sure you aren't wasting time doing nothing. Any box with description may hide something, but not every.
If there are 100 trees in a forest and you are supposed to find some specific tree, it won't be that easy to just move mouse around, because in the forest there are like 10 types of different trees and each type have description. Then it is cloned 10 times or 100 times for 1000 trees and each tree have description. A changed pointer won't be indicator of the exact tree you are supposed to find.

I will check out the range, but AFAIR i were once testing on the Hydlaa plaza floor example and it gave me no description when i been like 10m away or so.

[Under the moon]

I would say to make it an option. As I have said countless times before, and as the discusion above demonstrates, not everyone plays the same, or likes the same interface. That is why you can move all the windows around and give them alternate themes.

Option menu: Use default curser.  Use veiw cursers.

Check one, and be happy.

*edit* I have heard of "Dying to to read a book." but never had it meant so litterally. Having to kill yourself to go read books is kinda silly.

[Draklar]

I would click on the bottle if I have been sure i get description, but what i get instead is waiting, during which i wonder if the description will never come, coz it just isn't there. Or it won't come because i'm trying to click some pixel, which won't give me description. Or i'm just too far.
So I don't know what the problem is, but as the bottle is supposed to have description, I move closer, click somewhere else and in the end, when it turn the bottle did not have description, I'm really disappointed and most likely won't try to seek any other description of any other object.

Man, you're good at finding problems.

I just click and it works.

[Nikodemus]

I just click and it works.

And i do and it doesn't Probably wouldn't raise a discussion if it didn't ;P
UtM has a good point there!

[Araye]

On cursor change:

The act of running your cursor over everything is "actively searching".  It's the same as doing it with your hand or eye in RL.  This coupled with a range requirement seems like a reasonable way to implement "looking for items with additional information".

"Hey, the cursor changed, I found something that requires further investigation!"

I can also see setting a flag on that item once you've "investigated it further" so it will no longer change the cursor on that item.  So in the beginning, "everything" changes the cursor and eventually only new items will change the cursor.

Of course as UTM suggests, this could be further configured through the user interface options.

I would also like a spell that can be cast that will "outline" new or hidden objects.  "Look, that book is glowing blue.  Maybe I should read it."

Just my opinion.

[Karyuu]

I have heard of "Dying to to read a book." but never had it meant so litterally. Having to kill yourself to go read books is kinda silly.

If your character wouldn't do that, then don't do it with that character. The Death Realm is a thing far bigger than what the current art shows you - and books aren't the only goodies it will hold.

[bilbous]

That sounds like a good idea Araye. One thing I find is that my brain will kind of selectively edit out such a small change as between the two cursor images posted on the last page so that it won't always register a change if I expect to see no change. Even If I do expect a change my eye get a little glassy at times.

[Draklar]

I can also see setting a flag on that item once you've "investigated it further" so it will no longer change the cursor on that item.  So in the beginning, "everything" changes the cursor and eventually only new items will change the cursor.

"Gotta read 'em all!" feature? You people need to realise some of the objects that have descriptions at the same time are objects normal characters wouldn't bother investigating.
Many descriptions are in fact details about the setting that characters would learn over a longer period of time. What this is used for? How does this work? Oh, some rumours? It completely destroys gaming experience when you have a convenient feature that allows you to read all that stuff by swinging your cursor around and learning everything within a day or two.
...
And then the players get bored with nothing new added, thus having nothing better to do than whining on the boards.

[Araye]

Draklar, I agree with you in that it should not just pop up the information.  I think it should just change the cursor.  The player must take the initiative to "read the book" by right clicking and pressing the "eye" to examine before the "flag" is set.

I also agree that most items like a bench in the park are not worth the effort to most to investigate.  I think I also heard in Xillix's podcast that he doesn't want common, unimportant items to have a description as everyone knows that it is just a bench.  So I was assuming that when I made my post.

[Draklar]

Just changing the cursor would also allow player to learn everything on the go. There's no difference.

I think I also heard in Xillix's podcast that he doesn't want common, unimportant items to have a description as everyone knows that it is just a bench.  So I was assuming that when I made my post.

I do believe he meant that there's no point describing how something looks, because player already sees that thanks to graphics.
Instead benches have description that unfolds some tiny piece of background about Hydlaa.
What character sees, player sees. Descriptions are just a bonus.

[Nikodemus]

And then the players get bored with nothing new added, thus having nothing better to do than whining on the boards.

How come I already got bored? I reed like 10 of different descriptions? ;P mainly in magic shop (i gues i tried to read everything what was there, so maybe a bit more). I'm sure there are a lot more, but how come I got bored without reading them? I gues you already realised you have a point, but it isn't the only point of viev ;)

I can also see setting a flag on that item once you've "investigated it further" so it will no longer change the cursor on that item.  So in the beginning, "everything" changes the cursor and eventually only new items will change the cursor.

Of course as UTM suggests, this could be further configured through the user interface options.

If sucha feature i would like to see it optional too, because i just want simple cursor change indicating i can click a thing. I'm in range, there is no glitch.
I think UtM suggested just the pointer change to be an option, but yeah, everything could be an option, i gues its what you could mean ;)

I would also like a spell that can be cast that will "outline" new or hidden objects.  "Look, that book is glowing blue.  Maybe I should read it."

* Nikodemus doesn't like spells which make life easier on a random way without any logic.

Even spells have to work somehow. if you want such a spell you need specify how it works. Then goes deciding how (maybe it wouldn't be as simple as pressing macro), and then how advanced is such a spell. It may be tought.
There may be a spell which cause a plank to be nailed to another plank. It sounds so simple, but for a mage it may be extremaly hard. Who knows how the spell exactly works.

One thing I find is that my brain will kind of selectively edit out such a small change as between the two cursor images posted on the last page so that it won't always register a change if I expect to see no change. Even If I do expect a change my eye get a little glassy at times. :)

That's the whole point, you are lucky that you would see the change and when you realy wantd it ;P But yeah, you would really need to want it ;)

[Araye]

Niko, you make a good point about the spell.  It should have a purpose and I should have thought it out better before posting the suggestion.

It could outline things hidden by magic - a reveal spell.  Or it could be a tool to help the mage find something lost or something desired.

A spell that points out "the devs just made this building/book/npc/tool" (as you note) would be a silly idea.

Next time I'll think the thought out more completely before posting any such ideas.

[bilbous]

Your spell could just be "display significance". It might not be significant to your character at the moment or it might but the fact that that there is more to it than there appears means a dev thought it had some significance. Another term might be  "detect exceptional item" as the rule is most things are no more than they seem.

[Nikodemus]

Draklar, for arena description it's 6,5 m.  But i gues for items like potion on a table, it shouln't be more than 2 m. In library this should be also 2m, because its kind of how far you would reach without moving too much.