wilderness rogues

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I will look at the rogues.

[bilbous]

Outstanding, Xillix! That is more than I had hoped for. Even if they drop nothing but mundane weapons they will be more useful than at present.

[LigH]

Again the same thread about the same topic...


- Chars who need experience go fighting NPCs who give experience.

- Chars who need money go mining gold. (Does it sound like boring stereotyping already?)

- Chars who are made too weak to fight anything harder are "doomed" to roleplay because they can not make experience in any other way than fighting...

Isn't that a funny concept? -- Cheat the character generation to make a fighter, or roleplay because you are too weak to fight.


And before you developers wonder what I am talking about: Make a new char of a physically weaker race, with some interesting childhood -- and then tell me how long you need to get 100 PP.

The overall game setting gives advantages only to serious players, in one or the other extreme -- in my opinion. After almost 2 years now, I can well compare the development of several chars I made. And in times of version 0.3.012, it was much easier to develop chars in different ways. Today you can only specialize in few skills if you want to train at all.

"Fighting" and "getting experience" ist still a too close equation without alternatives. A year ago I remember specialized merchants of specific goods, as well as a wider range of possible customers. Watch the current auctions -- as rare as useful items are now, as small is the amount of possible customers who can afford their prices. Where are the "lucky loots" for the beginners today? Today your char needs to be a respectable fighter before he can stand against any opponent who would drop anything.

Maybe this way you want to force us to hunt in groups? ... 

[Nikodemus]

Mining is not very realistic. Most people who mined for gold never made a nickel Many never broke even and yet any schlub can mine gold and get rich. In real life it might take a month to mine enough iron to make a sword and yet it can be done in a day. Do not get me wrong, I am not criticizing the developers when I say this, I am complaining about the purists who expect too much.

No nickel because noone care about nickel, maybe they don't even know of its existance. Besides nickel is crappy metal. Noone is getting broke because mines are open for everyone to mine. I wouldn't be suprised if they get exhaused in the end. There are already much less gold miners and I'd say there are as many of them as Iron miners from my last days observations. At is all what is about mining. With few imperfections, it is very real system, very limited, because there aren't other activities directly about mining, but much much more real than the fighting.
I'm not a purist too, when i talk about imperfections i agree on.

Don't say how much you need to mine now to make a sword, because it isn't about mining, but about crafting and this is screwed as i said already before, because of.... the fighting/camping pressure on everything else.

It really isn't my fault it turned so lame in your oppinion.
I started there with idea opposite to yours, as i realised its probably te best way towards successful RP game (because tis game is supposed to be like that).  But others couldn't i gues take it as a good idea to think on, but idea which goes against your wish for more loot, more camping and more OOCness which you like over ICness (you do probably because the game is like that by its features, but it really makes to wonder if you could otherwise ;P) I don't doubt you can go IC, but you seem to refuse a vision of being IC by all game features.
I also gues you know player made wishes in these areas rarely come true fast enough, especially complicated, so you come up with simple, unfortunatelly causing OOCness idea.

I really tried to invite someone there to discuss on IC solutions, but as noone did, i gues i give few examples of what i had in mind, for others to at least remember.

• A hunter tracking it's prey in the wildreness by different marks left by it. A fun from both tracking and fghting to have goods of good value for sale. Not really going into wilderness and trying your luck with randomly spawning mobs all over the map without any marks where to look. With mechanism, which discourages running around blindly with camping ideas in mind.
• A rogue ambush set on travellers and miners coming back with their resourcess. Flee or fight them. Eighter way, once you kill them, they won't respown just like that so one can camp.
• Player/s ambushing a camp of rogues they found out by some means. Once killed they won't respawn in a minute in front of you. But maybe some autorities will pay you for well done job.
• Gladiators you fight at arena, while some NPCs spectate from time to time. Not a fight in a dark corridor, where they respawn one after another, so you can have ooc fun camping. If you happen to kill all Gladiators in a duel, don't be suprised if there will be no more and you will have options to fight other players who were doing the same. Why shouldn't you if when you win a give amount of money will be taken from their sack and added to yours. (this one is complicated, so probably for later development)

Impossible? If so I say you(to all in general) are a damn campers without any vision for enjoyment.

LigH, you are right of course. I think it was already proposed that by removing PPs, newcomer isn't that doomed.
And again, all other aspects of fighting, you just can't avoid because you can't play then, are these, which spoils any others aspect of the game and then the othr aspects are spoild too.

[bilbous]

Just for the record, you misunderstood what I said. If you look at the gold rushes in California, Alaska and whatnot, periods with more advanced technology than medieval times, you will see that the vast majority of people who went out hunting the gold wound up with little for their trouble and many of them lost their lives. My comment never had anything to do with the element nickel, I was referring to a five cent coin called a nickel because it was originally made from an alloy of the metal.

Because anyone can go mine ore and fill up their pack easily, it is not very realistic but I am able to accept that realism must take a back seat to playability. Realistically speaking the plaza should become something like this. Another reason mining is unrealistic is that you dig and dig and dig and the shape of the ground never changes. Again though, none of this really bothers me as I understand it is a game and concessions have to be made.

You want random spawns and wandering monsters, there is no doubt in my mind that the developers do too but at the moment that is not what we have, what we have is monsters that wander into the geometry and fall off the face of the earth without respawning, when they get activated. That is more of a problem than monsters that just stand still.

By the way I used the term "lame" to talk about threads where the too sides are so entrenched that discussion is pointless and not as a comment on the game itself. This thread was not supposed to be another one, it was supposed to be about the rogues in the wilderness such as the five in the first area beyond hydlaa going towards Ojaveda, or the six in the valley below the brigand near the pass to the second gold mine. You could have just said you thought they should not have loot and left it at that but you didn't and the thread went off-topic from there. That is life, it happens. I do not think there is much more to say.

[LigH]

In my opinion, it is not yet so far off...

I once complained about the extremes, and a lack of variety. I just do it again.

Lack of variety is a reason that you see a bunch of fighters camping one monster, and ignoring another. I don't know if you are long enough in game to remember the only two mercenaries dropping any axes at all - then it was only one ...

Why do people like to fight the Brigand? For the amount of experience? For the Small Battle Axes and Silver Falchions? -- Some time ago there was another reason, a roleplaying oriented one: Because he was the only source of pies. A paradox situation? No - a logical one.


@ Xillix & Co.:

Try to make the rogues special, and credible (loot vs. power -- but don't forget a lucky chance). Let the players chose one or another opponent for a reason.