Fighting on Plaza ALWAYS OOC???

[Feline Prince]

Valorius... No one's asking what is implemented.
In likewise manner, no one cares what you have to say.

And as far as I remember, after dueling you don't run away to hide all the way to Oja. You keep standing by the plaza in the most visible place possible. You're trying to make a point or just trying to be funny?

If you dont care what i have to say why are you responding to my posts? Why have you devolved into petty insults? Oh, right, because arguing with someone that has a professional background in a subject you obviously know little about casts you in a poor light.

 One guard on foot and one guard tower is not an inviolable security environment, nor even close. You totally discount things like diversions, limited visibility, blindspots, deliberate obscuration, magic, etc, etc. What if i cast dazzling light at the towers occupants first? Or phantasmal voices? Or just plain arrow them to death right through the stone walls? I'll take lvl 90CW Enrg Arrow over a crossbow any day my friend. It never misses...and it goes through any armor.

PS: Characters in game do not run away because they all know that no one is coming to get them. If GMs appeared in plate armor dealing justice and death, i assure you, duelists would run after a slaying.

At any rate, since "no one cares what i say", Ciao.

Hello!

I think there is only one solution for this PvP versus Non-PvP(RPG?) discussion: create a PvP-server and a RPG-server. On the PvP-server you can have all the PvP you want and limit the PvP on the RPG-server to certain areas or conditions, such as challenges.

With kind regards
Kaityra

That would be great.

I think the idea is that he is replying so gullible people don't take your ideas whole heartedly on board. Our CHARACTERS do think the guards are coming to get them. Its the PLAYERS that don't. Hence bad roleplay. There could be a million guards for all you know.

This is a RP game. Not a PvP game. Find a PvP game or learn to RP here.

[Earl_Listbard]

I'll tell you whats OC, a GM freezing and levitating 30 players, then letting them all drop at once, killing many of them. THAT is ooc.

Nah, thats laanx, he likes to kill people who anger him, and dueling in his plaza angers him, nuff said... Fight in the plaza and be estinguished by the wrath of a god whom no mortal can rival.

 The cross bows and bows crap is really off topic yes cross bows exist in yliakum its not as difficult of a comtraption as you may think... but even if you don't buy the fact that crossbows don't exist in yliakum, they still have glyphs, and everyone knows from first hand experiance a guard is more powerful then the best of warriors.



Duel in the plaza and..

-Lannx will smite you for sheding blood in his city
-The guards will lock you up


Nuff said.

[Valorius Rageway]

If you dont care what i have to say why are you responding to my posts?

Because you clutter the thread with irrelevant stuff.

This thread isn't about what is implemented and what isn't.
This thread is a question aimed at role-players, or otherwise people who know anything about it. What you posted so far works as nothing else than misleading information.

Sorry, you have absolutely no notion whatsoever of the capabilities or lack thereof of a single guard tower and one guard on foot(by winch gate). Your lack of knowledge wrt this matter is mind blowing. But please do, continue to teach me all about security and military capabilities.

(what a surprise, a FLAME FEST!)

Bye

[Draklar]

Bye

Thank you o/

@Kaityra: Planeshift will never be split into seperate servers. And most certainly there won't be a PvP one. This game isn't aimed at duelers. It's aimed at role-players. As the time passes, the development of PS will (hopefully) make it more visible.

[Nikodemus]

Bye

Please don't come back anytime soon

[Earl_Listbard]

Valorius, its not a flame fest, its trying to establish WHY people shouldn't duel in the plaza, Because... its horrible RP, plain and simple, no one is Attacking you, from what i read its more 'disagreeing' and then stating 'Why'


Wether or not guards can control a crowd is irrelivant, this is a beta mmorpg and although guards don't run around arresting people like they no doubt will, to stay in a realm of what Hydlaa is, there should still be that healthy respect of fear...

pff and if not that, laanx can always enforce his will by zapping people

Please don't come back anytime soon 

well that was kinda mean 

[Kaityra]

Greetings!

@Kaityra: Planeshift will never be split into seperate servers. And most certainly there won't be a PvP one. This game isn't aimed at duelers. It's aimed at role-players. As the time passes, the development of PS will (hopefully) make it more visible.

Well, I'm not into PvP, so I like it as it is. But there will always be players who would like to test their character skills against others and these players will always complain how bad PvP is supported by this game. It will go on and on ...
Either these gamers find a PS-server which will fulfill their needs or they have to find another game that supports PvP to their liking. I don't see more options for them.

With kind regards
Kaityra

[Myriel]

Quote from: Valorius Rageway on  09 July 2007, 18:02:11

Quote from: Draklar on 09 July 2007, 17:55:33

That's why the weapon was despised so much. When you're surrounded by a group of people, each of whom can kill you with but a trigger of their finger, it's downright stupid to attack.

A) Youre not surrounded, B) you have far more firepower than a guy with a crossbow if youre a mage. Arrow spell goes through walls. And then there's meteors...

Who says the guards don't have mages, too?

[eldoth_terevan]

I have seen good fight scenarios played out in the plaza before, although nearer to the fountain. Amazingly enough, they combined roleplay and dueling mechanics in a believable manner as part of a story involving the characters. A story that all of these players cooperated on. It was a short fight, and to the point, it did not run over into the area of the smithy nor disturb anyone.

The point about not fighting in the plaza is just one of courtesy. The point about not fighting there, because it is in the middle of the busiest area of the city, is just a basic reason. Not a reason that would hold up to the hair-splitting tedious debate that every single bit of minutiae about the game is subject to on these forums. It's just better, and more respectful to other characters to do it elsewhere. I would also not advise anyone to hold their breath for a second server, people should work together to make Laanx a good server for everyone.

[Draklar]

or they have to find another game that supports PvP to their liking.

Sounds good to me :P

eldoth: There's role-play and pseudo role-play. People who duel on the plaza more often than not do the latter.
If people would get away with dueling on the plaza, more guards would be appointed to patrol it. Simple as that.

[eldoth_terevan]

My point about that fight was that it was an exception, rather than the rule. Fighting should occur away from the plaza as a general rule. As for role-play and pseudo-roleplay, that sounds like the subject of a different tedious hair-splitting thread.

[Nicana]

I think the idea is that he is replying so gullible people don't take your ideas whole heartedly on board. Our CHARACTERS do think the guards are coming to get them. Its the PLAYERS that don't. Hence bad roleplay. There could be a million guards for all you know.

This is a RP game. Not a PvP game. Find a PvP game or learn to RP here.

Why would everyone's character think that the guards were coming for them?  If true RP is encouraged then there would be possibility of very agile and cunning criminals, just as in real life, just as there were in medieval times.  What if "our CHARACTER" was one of these?  Or is all RP just meant to be a "hiya/social" network?

In answer to the Drah's original question (and as has been dispersed throughout this thread) I think that the reason for "no dueling" in the plaza is an ooc reason, "because it's the busiest area".   In reality, if a shady character wanted to "take someone out" they'd sneak up behind them, perhaps while they're busy at the smiith's furnace and stick a shiv in their side ... unless of course you're assuming that everyone in Yliakum plays by the "Warrior Code" of challenging someone to a duel and meeting them "in the arena at noon" ...  

[Raleigh]

I'll tell you whats OC, a GM freezing and levitating 30 players, then letting them all drop at once, killing many of them. THAT is ooc.

Nah, thats laanx, he likes to kill people who anger him, and dueling in his plaza angers him, nuff said... Fight in the plaza and be estinguished by the wrath of a god whom no mortal can rival.

I really dislike this... as it could be used to justify anything(including harassment) at all as being IC as long as it comes from a GM or dev(not that it will be used for it),and the less gods are present, more freedom of roleplaying different characters and perspectives will exist. Now with a god stomping everybody who goes "out of line"(I mean it from an IC perspective), it should be very uniform the type of citizen that will be alive in Yliakum, though it's realistically plausible that Talad would somehow restrain the destructive and murderous will of Laanx or the Settings would be centered around an onipotent and brutal tyranny.

@Valorius: As you are leaving PlaneShift, you should try a MMOFPS then, because they are obviously more fun for the PvP than any MMORPG.

[drah]

Nicana is correct, there did seem to be a different rulebook used for a GM event compared to the one used for everyone else.

(I never saw any GMs getting frozen, suspended in the air and killed, so yes... a rule for them and a rule for us... and in our case, we had many in numbers, they had what... one??!... ya gotta smile at that.)

Also, the claims of harrassment to avoid repurcussions for your IC and RP'd actions has been an annoyance lately.  You have auto-decline, you have /ignore, yet some people choose to NOT use those functions and instead, almost conspiratorally try to use the GMs as tools to get people banned, which effectively becomes OOC harassment as a revenge for the IC harassment.  Using the GMs in such a manner has happened at least twice now.

That's not to say it's the fault of the GMs, it's just some people know how to manipulate them.

Draklar: Valorius is posting because Valorius is aware of the reasons behind my original post and is effectively adding some background and context to it.  I avoided giving that info away because I knew what to expect in regards to the responses, by pulling it out of it's context... I stood a better chance of getting opinions that I could use at a later date to justify my actions rather than knee-jerk reactions... and to some degree it was successful.

---

"Hydlaa has to withstand serious attacks from roaming beasts"
And these roaming beasts are as intelligent and tactical as 20-30 trained warriors many of whom can use magic, have armor, etc..? AND have an intelligence network behind them?? - I don't think so.

"If someone has crossbow aimed at you, it isn't very likely you'll think about how many bolts it has to shoot."
When a guard aims a crossbow at us, we can debate that point!

"Just because something isn't implemented, doesn't mean it doesn't exist RP-wise."
In that case there should be some sort of IC force with the capability of protecting Hydlaa properly.  Anybody wish to step forward? --- If there are a number of guards in a certain location on a regular basis and we can't see them... CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL US?!?!


"Actually noone is missing your point, but it is you who mis ours"
50/50 I'd say!!!

"Valorius. If you walk into the middle of London"
Try London when it was the size of Hydlaa!!! - It was a lot different to modern London, so that comparison is already invalid.

"I think there should be a mob called 'Guard' that GMs can spawn anywhere in the hydlaa. These would attack anyone taking a combat stance. The GM could then take the role of lead guard which would lend to the RP immersion."

I couldn't agree more, the GMs should be empowered to repel people fighting on the plaza... it'd be fun for them and fun for the players and add to the RP all-round.  Even if they made themselves damn near invincible, I'd still rather be driven out of town by the guards than frozen in the air by a GM and subsequently killed when released... that was even more ridiculous than any fighting on the plaza I've ever seen.

I SHOULD be killed by a guard... not fall from the damn sky.  Pfffft!!!

---

As for knowing the guards movements, if you knew the conversation I have with people in-character, you'd know that I (and Valorius and several other people) would make it our job to recognize the forces in Hydlaa (if we had some sort of indication from somewhere, would be helpful) and with that, assess what would need to be done to neutralize a threat from the guards there.

We don't have that liberty, we simply see what our characters can see and so, base everything off that... we don't "god-mod" imaginary guards into the game... we just use what our characters can see... because playing the characters role, immersing yourself... is what is encouraged.  I'll immerse myself in PS.. but I'm not going to go on a fantastical journey imagining everything else because that heads towards god-modding and is unsubstanciated by any ACTUAL FACT that we as both players AND characters are made aware of.

It's almost like we're blamed for not imaging the guards that aren't actually there... how terrible of us!!!

This is why I asked the question in my original post, Truthfully, I just wanted to know what would be a realistic size force to neutralize the guards so that if there were any further conflicts on that passed through the Plaza... we'd be able to keep it realistic.

Kaityra... you're effectively saying the two can't coincide... we're not pushing for segregation, we're looking for integration of both elements... the battle that passed through the Plaza involved only people willing to take part, we weren't running around challenging people or giving people grief directly... but were still treated as if we had.

"There could be a million guards for all you know."
There could be just the ones we see and the watch tower could be empty.  There's no indication one way or another, so to make claims of "It's OOC 'cuz the guards would get you"... is actually YOUR INTERPRETATION... and it's not based on the physical evidence we have in-game... so it's also
supposition because there aren't any facts that ACTUALLY support it.

Earl, remember "Nobody cares what you say", that's actually attacking Valorius personally OOCly... as you even mentioned "Please don't come back anytime soon".. so yes, Valorius does get attacked personally.

This is why Valorius, myself and many others stay mute a lot of the time on various issues, because this is what we've come to expect.

A simple answer is... if the PvP doesn't involve you... ignore it... but WHOA... that's waaaay too much to ask. (the majority of the fighting on the plaza in our war was actually away from Harnquists... but let's use Harnquist's location as a strawman argument here too.. because that'll further make people look bad.)

"Who says the guards don't have mages, too?"
Who says they do, what books or evidence in-game is there to this effect?? - Based on the available evidence they don't... and yet this is more supposition/assumption-making.

"The point about not fighting in the plaza is just one of courtesy." - Enforceable by a ban... so it IS actually an unwritten OOC RULE enforced by GMs.

"or they have to find another game that supports PvP to their liking." - PS supports PvP to our liking, it's the GMs who assume there are rules where there aren't that cause us the headaches and use their interpretation of what is and isn't OOC as a rulebook... and with each GM comes a different perception and way of handling things... AGAIN... NOT a direct criticism of the GMs... JUST of the situation. (please understand that GMs... I'm not trying to take swipes at you really... you're in the most awkard position of anyone, I suspect.)

And... there's my head on the chopping block.

Chop away...

[Draklar]

In reality, if a shady character wanted to "take someone out" they'd sneak up behind them, perhaps while they're busy at the smiith's furnace and stick a shiv in their side ...

Of course. But we're not talking about people /me'ing assassination at the furnace.
We're talking about dueling at plaza.

"Hydlaa has to withstand serious attacks from roaming beasts"
And these roaming beasts are as intelligent and tactical as 20-30 trained warriors many of whom can use magic, have armor, etc..? AND have an intelligence network behind them?? - I don't think so.

If there's a band of people that:
1) commit a crime
2) in the middle of a town
3) well guarded town
4) wiping themselves with no regard of the above
Then I dare say a band of mindless horde storming walls of the said town will pose much greater danger.
Let alone horde that isn't quite mindless...

And in reference to fighting in the middle of a town... Intelligent and tactical? Are you joking? xD