[Guild] The Fallen Kingdom

[Farren Kutter]

No, there is an actual Lord Vengeance...

[Under the moon]

* Under the moon takes several deep breaths before starting.

Let me first start out by saying this is a relatively original idea, and would be a very good guild… (here comes the bad part) if it did not completely clash with the current Settings as I understand them.

This is what I thought to myself as I was reading:

It starts out well enough with the purpose, being the somewhat typical cult mentality. But starts to go astray in the ranks.

Knight- overused term, but ok.
Fallen- Actually, I like this one.
Undead- Ya, that sounds about…um, what? Brought back from the dead, but still dead? Did he just create a new class of people?
Death Knight - <Dragon warrior flashback> An advance class of a created class? They regain their skills? How do you delete them in the first place?
Creators- sound fine, except for the bringing back of the dead part.
Reanimators- an invented power to create that new class of character? I am finding this a little to far outside the settings to mesh well.

The Oath looks good, but all that dead man walking talk is still bothering me.

“What is Reanimation?”

Oh, here it is again. He seems to be making it the centerpiece of his guild. *starts imagining people running around trying to make others accept them as the dead walking, and the clash that will happen when other do not accept it*  Ok, I’ll admit that I did it once, and it was accepted by most, but I was playing a spirit, not a walking corpse. And an entire guild of them? this is goind to be the vampire thing all over again.

“Pretty much it is a spell that allows the wielder to summon the dead.” Like… waiting for them to walk back out of the death realm, after suffering a nuisance of a death, and the now standard get-out-of-death-free-card? This completely conflicts with Xillix’s new books in the DR. You are either dead, and can walk right back out with some effort, or you are deleted, and no longer exist.

Immune to dieing? What? I am sure Mobs, other players, fall damage, the edge of the world, and game mechanics are not going to play along with that. The first time I hear “I am dead, so you can not kill me.”….


What, what, and what? “To keep them around it drains your physical strength (to the point where fighting abilities are 0 with all 5).” How do you reduce your fighting stats? This is not going to be one of those RP only guilds that completely ignores all physical stats, is it? “Those you summon have little strength but they don't tire, making them able to fight forever, just not effectivly.” Ok, the only way that is going to work is only ‘RP’ fighting. I wonder what Farren would say if he found out exactly how much I dislike RP battles.

Gah… I don’t think I can read the rest of this. I have no idea how this would be properly played in PS, but I know none of my characters could accept it. Somehow, this entire thing feels like a terrible idea.

/end thought reaction while reading.

Sorry about that, but it is what I thought as I was reading. Though well written, “OMGzorz, we R a guild of ZOMbiES!!!” kept creeping up in the back of my mind.

[Farren Kutter]

To clear it up, the death knight is an undead that regained its true powers, plus some, since undead were weaker and all.

[Under the moon]

I understood that perfectly when reading the thread. It just does not sit well with me.

[Zan]

Actually UtM ... Necromancy is not against the settings.

2.9.1.2. Dark Way

...

Description:

This Way is one that congers more myth then any of the others, its practitioners have a history of being the most innovative of any practitioners of the Ways of Magic, but with all innovation there is both good and bad. It's known that many disasters and epidemics were caused by the adepts of this ancient Way, that holds some spells with terrifying effects. Things can become even worst if you lose the control of its power. Some spells enables the control of horrific creatures, such as undead, demons, spirits. Some enable the caster to control objects and people in a subtle manner, at distance.

I do agree with the immunity to dying though, it's a bit over the top. That they would be very hard to destroy that I can buy but burn an undead or chop it up into tiny bits and it's still rendered harmless. And as I already said, like all of Duraza's stories ... they are dangerously flavored with powerful magic that isn't based on game mechanics at all. So far I haven't been able to complain about my RP encounters with Duraza himself but others aren't always so good at keeping things enjoyable and fair.

[Farren Kutter]

His character(s) have strong powers that he tempers by playing his weaknesses and also by RPing the characters very well. I have never had any problems when I RP with Duraza and I know he won't let just any noob play a part that could be potentially abused.

[Duraza]

Name Suggestion:



Cavaliers of Vengeance

Only because the word knight is so overused.

Sorry not changing the name  Knight is overused but I think that it fits very well. Maybe its just me though 

I wasn't aware the world's life was at stake, let alone need purifying.

I question why anyone would join a guild that is bent on destroying everything, (does that include themselves?) -actual question-

But minus the total destruction of all living beings, this guild bears alot of resemblance to an actual knight guild, defending those who cannot defened themselves... witht he whole vengance thing and all... Though, the whole /vengance is our lord/ thing could use clarification... Lord is a title, and forgive me for being so /litteral/ but how could an act of vengance be a Lord, unless as Neko speaks... you mean the cranky adminostrator.

In a way yes. They don't think that death is something that will ignore them. They know that the price for achieving their goals will take their lives so they must not have a problem with it. Vengeance is an act yes but they actually believe that there is a person. Pretty much Vengeance would be the name of someone who is sort of like a god to them like most believe in Laanx. Its hard for me to put in words but pretty much they believe Vengeance to not only be an act they commit but for there to be one called Vengeance who they serve by commiting the act.

Knight- overused term, but ok.
Fallen- Actually, I like this one.
Undead- Ya, that sounds about…um, what? Brought back from the dead, but still dead? Did he just create a new class of people?
Death Knight - <Dragon warrior flashback> An advance class of a created class? They regain their skills? How do you delete them in the first place?
Creators- sound fine, except for the bringing back of the dead part.
Reanimators- an invented power to create that new class of character? I am finding this a little to far outside the settings to mesh well.

The Oath looks good, but all that dead man walking talk is still bothering me.

“What is Reanimation?”

Oh, here it is again. He seems to be making it the centerpiece of his guild. *starts imagining people running around trying to make others accept them as the dead walking, and the clash that will happen when other do not accept it*  Ok, I’ll admit that I did it once, and it was accepted by most, but I was playing a spirit, not a walking corpse. And an entire guild of them? this is goind to be the vampire thing all over again.

“Pretty much it is a spell that allows the wielder to summon the dead.” Like… waiting for them to walk back out of the death realm, after suffering a nuisance of a death, and the now standard get-out-of-death-free-card? This completely conflicts with Xillix’s new books in the DR. You are either dead, and can walk right back out with some effort, or you are deleted, and no longer exist.

Immune to dieing? What? I am sure Mobs, other players, fall damage, the edge of the world, and game mechanics are not going to play along with that. The first time I hear “I am dead, so you can not kill me.”….


What, what, and what? “To keep them around it drains your physical strength (to the point where fighting abilities are 0 with all 5).” How do you reduce your fighting stats? This is not going to be one of those RP only guilds that completely ignores all physical stats, is it? “Those you summon have little strength but they don't tire, making them able to fight forever, just not effectivly.” Ok, the only way that is going to work is only ‘RP’ fighting. I wonder what Farren would say if he found out exactly how much I dislike RP battles.

Gah… I don’t think I can read the rest of this. I have no idea how this would be properly played in PS, but I know none of my characters could accept it. Somehow, this entire thing feels like a terrible idea.

/end thought reaction while reading.

Sorry about that, but it is what I thought as I was reading. Though well written, “OMGzorz, we R a guild of ZOMbiES!!!” kept creeping up in the back of my mind.

I underrstand your worry. As mentioned before Dark way does support the summoning of the undead though. I mainly went by what I thought someone who was undead would be, a zombie. If already dead it makes no sense to be able to die again so why try and change that? However I didn't want this move to be used as a way to god mod so I devloped weaknesses. Firstly the undead summoned would not have the former strength they did when living to kinda help out the fact that it doesn't die or tire. Then to make it harder for the wielder I made them have to lose strength. When I said physical strength I didn't mean that if you were level 80 in sword your suddenly 0. I meant that even if you were a top warrior summoning the max would drain you to the point where fighting would be a sure loss. Sure then I gave the Death Knight who recaptures his/her ability. However I then countered by making the wielder, after summoning the max, weak to a state were movement was even wasting too much energy. Finally to counter the fact that the dead still are immortal I made it so that they could be sent back through the killing of their weak masters (the point of decreasing the masters strength so much).

Because of all the stuff with RP and PvP I thought about it and decided not to make this guild only RP. I want it to accept PvP as well and not always only rp things for the fact that many people disagree with that method. So I had to think for a while on how I could make it work in a PvP sense. The final idea was that in a PvP one would have to take on the master and undead all at once. However only the master could be targeted for the fact that you wouldn't be able to attack the undead. In a war or in a situation where the direct master could not be targeted then the undead would be allowed to return from DR (making the trip OOC) and if the master was killed then it would be his/her job to tell the undead that are still fighting to /die .

As for who can summon the undead I'm going to pick them with great care and those who are undead would all the same be selected with care. They have to know the rules and rp by them. When it comes to techniques I make and allow others to use I'm very strict with them. If someone is found to be abusing it then feel free to tell me. Its a warning then afterwards if the circumstances requrie it a kick from the guild. I can't really stop them from continuing to use it just by kicking them but at the same time they could do it without me having teaching them in the first place.

[Under the moon]

No no. I have no doubt about your ability, and the ones you select. It is the rest of the folks in the game I am worried about. Unless you only include a small group of your friends as 'foes' in battle, most PvP folks are not going to abide by your rules. If it is not in the code, far too many people just say, "Ya, I don't have to listen to that."

Zan, yes, I know very well about the dark arts summoning. But, it does say, "control of horrific creatures, such as undead..."  I had always assumed that that passage refered to undead creatures, not characters, because of the way death is treated and described. I am just not so sure if it right for a player to assume that role. In order for that to work, the body of the character would have to remain in the live world, meaning the spirit has vanished (as hinted at in the newer books). But then, the bodies are disposed of, not kept around and buried or reanimated. You would have to  invent a reason why that character's body did not vanish or was kept around, and why they could not come back from the DR as most people now do. You would also have to explain how an animated corpse (read as rotting organic robot) could regain their personality, knowledge, and 'life', when that would have vanished with the spirit.

That is a lot of explaining to do for such an 'in your face' RP. Not that it could not be done, *sees some ways it could fit the story and game mechanics better*, but it is not going to work well the way you have stated.

Sorry, but I think this is one area in the Settings that is still highly conflicting, and needs to be hammered out better.

[Duraza]

No no. I have no doubt about your ability, and the ones you select. It is the rest of the folks in the game I am worried about. Unless you only include a small group of your friends as 'foes' in battle, most PvP folks are not going to abide by your rules. If it is not in the code, far too many people just say, "Ya, I don't have to listen to that."

I know this to be true. Fact is though one does not have to follow an rp regardless. Even an rper can easily and ICly say "I don't believe these guys are undead" and just ignore anything I tell them OOCLy to try and prove it. Would I support this? No because I want people to enjoy and have fun with this guild idea but at the same time if your not comfortable rping it or just don't feel it belongs then you can dismiss it in that same IC way. I can't please everyone no matter how in the settings my rp can be. People will always complain about the smallest details and I feel giving in to that only makes rping start to seem boring and repetitive. It needs some spice every once in a while  . At least in my opinion.

*sees some ways it could fit the story and game mechanics better*

If so feel free to mention it or send me a pm. If it is a better way it might be a good idea to change up the guild a little, especially while it still hasn't been assembled.

Zan, yes, I know very well about the dark arts summoning. But, it does say, "control of horrific creatures, such as undead..."  I had always assumed that that passage refered to undead creatures, not characters, because of the way death is treated and described. I am just not so sure if it right for a player to assume that role. In order for that to work, the body of the character would have to remain in the live world, meaning the spirit has vanished (as hinted at in the newer books). But then, the bodies are disposed of, not kept around and buried or reanimated. You would have to  invent a reason why that character's body did not vanish or was kept around, and why they could not come back from the DR as most people now do. You would also have to explain how an animated corpse (read as rotting organic robot) could regain their personality, knowledge, and 'life', when that would have vanished with the spirit.

As I think about this more though I don't think that it is just spirit that goes to DR. It would make no sense whatsoever. If so that would mean that when you came back from DR you either got a new body or somehow you just jumped back into your old corpse. If bodies are dispossed of (I know it is written in the settings but still...) that would mean that your spirit would make its way to whatever dump the bodies are put then walk out as if nothing happened. Something I'll have to check but I'm doubting that it would make sense if only your spirit went and your body was left to rot, only for you to re-enter your body later and return to life as normal with no explanation.

Sorry, but I think this is one area in the Settings that is still highly conflicting, and needs to be hammered out better.

A very true statement. However I think the best way to get it hammered out is to try and give it pratical use. If someone starts rping something that may or may not be true someone else may get angry because they don't believe it. The resulting conflict leads to the need for clarity and with that clarity will come another part of the game settings making more sense. By messing with the settings and testing their limits I think I'm helping to almost make them more clear and better and having a load of fun at the same time 

[RoberetGoldsmith]

 Ah , more  stuff for the mighty return  it better be big Duraza 


Hope the guild goes well for you ....but Roberet Would not say that

[Under the moon]

To clarify: when you are killed, and have the 'heroic' ability to come back to life, your body vanishes, and you come to life in the DR, spirit and body together. Then it is up to you to find your way to a portal, and back to your old life. You actually come back to life in the DR, not when you step through the portal that takes you home.

Some, the old, weak, executed, or 'unheroic' people do not have the ability to come back to life in the DR, so their body does not vanish, and their spirit does not go to the DR. No one is sure where it goes.

Now, I do not think you would want the bodies of the old or weak... but the executed might be your saving grace. Even then, though, you would have an animated corpse, not an intelligent character with all his old memories and knowledge, and you should never be able to RP getting them back. That is a hard RP to ask of someone.

[Duraza]

To clarify: when you are killed, and have the 'heroic' ability to come back to life, your body vanishes, and you come to life in the DR, spirit and body together. Then it is up to you to find your way to a portal, and back to your old life. You actually come back to life in the DR, not when you step through the portal that takes you home.

Some, the old, weak, executed, or 'unheroic' people do not have the ability to come back to life in the DR, so their body does not vanish, and their spirit does not go to the DR. No one is sure where it goes.

Now, I do not think you would want the bodies of the old or weak... but the executed might be your saving grace. Even then, though, you would have an animated corpse, not an intelligent character with all his old memories and knowledge, and you should never be able to RP getting them back. That is a hard RP to ask of someone.

Thanks for clearing that up. It was kinda confusing. Mainly I'm guessing that your agaisnt the undead having back their memories and knowledge. In otherwords you don't want them to be able to "think." If thats so there's no problem. The regular undead only rise back up. As I said they are unskilled and I've only ever refered to using them for fighting. As for the Death Knights yes I say they recapture old skills however I didn't mean they could remember everything again. Skill was refered to as strength no intellegence when I said it. Death Knights are only a more brutal form of the Undead, as in they are more powerful. They don't have the will to do things on their own though, the reason why there needs to be someone to summon and control them. It is he/she who summons them who controls them and has the power to will them to do their bidding. Mentioned in the first post I did say something about them able to gain vengeance for whatever killed them. This is only because they would be being used to destroy everything so eventually it would be believed that they would avenge themselves. As for the part of the Death Knights taking the oath I'll possibly have to think about that more. Fact is that part really needed to be changed anyways because the oath makes on swear their life to Vengeance and they would be making a false oath because they no longer have a life. 

Ah , more  stuff for the mighty return  it better be big Duraza 


Hope the guild goes well for you ....but Roberet Would not say that

As for you I'm already back  You just have failed to see me, possibly because of the server problems.....

[RoberetGoldsmith]

Ah, I won't be in-game for great a while because the computer im using now is a mac that can't work the .19  planeshift 

Also im   V.Busy in R/L

But  hopefully ill be back on when I get   back my repaired Windows XP

[Under the moon]

Ah then. Have them swear to give their -death- to Vengeance. Now that has a nice creepy ring to it.

I would say the only way to turn someone into an undead would be to stop their body from vanishing upon death, then steal the body. There are ways to do that, but they involve dark magics and possible poisons. Perhaps at the end of the vow (while still alive) the recrute would take a certain 'blue pill', thus preventing them from going to the DR.

[Duraza]

I would say the only way to turn someone into an undead would be to stop their body from vanishing upon death, then steal the body. There are ways to do that, but they involve dark magics and possible poisons. Perhaps at the end of the vow (while still alive) the recrute would take a certain 'blue pill', thus preventing them from going to the DR.

Sounds pretty possible to me. I was planning on working with this guild ingame all day (because I think I have enough members to actually start it) but sadly the servers down so I can't. Most likely it will be actually running by tuesday or wednesday and by then I should have a more clear description of the process of Reanimation and all the other details either in the first post or put somewhere in a website....Till then if there are any more suggestions feel free to add them.