The RP?????

[Coneitic]

ok thanks for listening and i'll spend a day or too getting a nice list easy to read, sorry about the long paragraph ran together i worked all day and was to tired to tab lol. should i post it or send a pm? i'd rather a post so others can see and respond but its up to u.

[Karyuu]

Posting would be better - that way we can get a lot more feedback from other players as well. Thanks for giving this a go!

[Under the moon]

This is a tough issue. For some odd reason, many folks assume that roleplaying is just standing around talking, and not running off and killing things. Others assume it is good against evil, and the plots that come from it.

Well, in a way that is true. But, it is also as far from the truth as you can get. To me, RP is action and consequence.  It is playing with a purpose and a goal. What I am talking about is the reason. The “Why?”

The RP Conietic is missing is based on the interactions between players that seemed to mean something on a greater level. To him, it mattered who won the battle, or who come out on top in a plot. It mattered because people would continue to react to that plot even after it was past. Players would make it ‘real’.

Why did he rely on that (as well as many of the rest of us)? Well, because at the time, there was no equivalent in the game. There was no purpose for your character. What did it matter to the world if you stopped to kill that rogue, or just ignored it and walked on by? What ill effects came from not going down to the sewers daily and killing rats? It did not even matter how many bad guys people killed while trying to clean out Oja, as they were always right back in a blink of an eye. That reduced NPCs from potential building blocks for RP, to simple forms of mining for items and training.

The simple fact is, your character did not, and still does not matter to the game. It is only through the interactions with other players that it is given any meaning at all. That is not a complaint. It is merely stating a fact AS IT IS NOW. I am sure this will change in the future. Well, I hope it will, anyways.

In the RP Conietic pointed to of mine, it mattered if people did, or did not try to solve the sickness. Certain players were willing to kill off their characters because of it. That is what people really crave, is for their actions to actually matter to events. For that to happen, there -has- to be consequence for failure. Not only that, there has to be the very real chance of failure.

I give you the Shields event that went on recently. It was a very well planned out plot that took players on a whirlwind adventure. Though it was entertaining to watch, it -was- very well planned out, right from the beginning to the end. The end was known and prewritten, with no variables that I saw. There was no chance of failure. There was no chance of anything other than the preplanned plot happening. In that, the individual player character once again did not matter. Had the players not killed the foes and achieved the goal, there was no consequence.

From the little hints I have gathered, the entire story plot for the future of the game is much the same. Things will happen regardless of what players may do or try. I could be wrong, though, so don’t quote me on that.

In the terms of ‘IF> THEN’, if RP is to become part of the coded game, then players must matter.

IF players do this, THEN something will come of it. A new mine is found. A new building comes to be. The price NPCs offer for a certain kind of item changes for good or ill. Small things, but things that players can see they are affecting.

IF players do not do this, THEN… I will burn your cities to the ground.

Not an easy task, and perhaps one that will never be realized. So, until then, Conietic, it is up to you to make yourself matter though interactions with other players.

I would do as miss Karyuu asked, and make your list.  I would make a list as well, but the forum is already littered with many, many of my suggestions. In the end, it comes down to this. If characters are to be a true and important part of the game, then they must matter to it.

And Coneitic, the comma and return keys are your friends. If your thought seems to shift a bit into a new point... push return. Twice. Like this:

And draklar [comma] i know its going to take time [comma] and i know some of that isnt easy[comma] but i mean there has to be a time frame for it right? [return, twice]

The whole policing issue wouldnt be that hard[comma, add word ‘as’] I’m sure you can copy and paste say the insides of ojeveda into the insides of hydlaa [period, new sentence] I love how that city was made perfect for rping[period, new sentence] To bad noone goes there without a quest or a craft, other than the occasional few. [return, twice]

One of the points im making is [that] i understand it will take a while[comma] but whens the time when you say ok we got enough quest and grind options now lets work on the rp?? i would still like to talk to an rp dev if there is one, and if hes or she has time just to talk a bit about somethings [period] I’m just asking[comma] not demanding[comma] so dont get it twisted. [hostile tone detected and may be returned] [return, twice]

I would just like the opportunity to speak. and if not is there maybe an rp counsil becaue i would surely like to apply. [umm…???]

[Coneitic]

did i just get a ticket from the grammar police? im sorry it wasnt up to your standards utm. i didnt really feel like it. i have used grammar well before i just wanted to type as fast as i was thinking so i wouldnt forget anything. next time i'll consider your feelings. also thats one thing i don't like about your rp's. they are very  well thought of and creative and original. but thats just it they are stories. they are out of a book and it seems your willing to shift a little on certain variables but in the long run you want it to end just how you planned. i belive rp should be different. i think the actions of those who get involved and sucked in by mistake should inevitably change the outcome. you say rp is action and consequence. but if your rp's all end the way they are planned then there can only be minor consequences. in the overrall story there are no major consequences, every action you would therefore tie to a consequence you seem fit to finish the story in your agenda. but thats where we differ on rp. not to say mine is better we just differ.  and this is off topic. my goal isnt to have people create an rp that i think is right or that you think is right but to create constant good rp. and not good by standards good as in its not a quick chat on the street, but a charactor that a person creates and must utilize that personality every day to get by. as if that was a world that that charactor was in and is constantly effected by his actions and the actions of others whether they planned it or not. im sure ive explained this already so im just going to work on the list. sorry utm again theres no enter enter comma comma i'll do better next time.

[neko kyouran]

there is no "rush" here.  there is no prize to post first.

take your time and post legibly or you run the risk of being ignored.  use proper netiquette please.

[Under the moon]

That was just a friendly pointer to help get your opinions across better.

As for the rest. Stories? Yes. Planned out? Somewhat, in an IF>THEN way. Flexible? Always. Set in stone ending? Never. But I do not create a baseball bat at the beginning of an RP, and halfway though, let someone try to talk me into saying it is a cannon as well. The story adapts to what players do, and changes. The props do not.  You wanted me to change the properties of the ‘cold’ after folks had started figuring out what it was. That is like changing the picture on a puzzle, and modifying the shapes of the pieces as someone is working on it. Let them put it together how ever they like, but NEVER change the picture or pieces once it has been laid out. That is bad form.

[Zan]

One thing I do agree with that does bug me is people and how they "pick" which rps they want to get involved. I understand that this is a game and therefore it should be fun for everyone however when I see someone clearly becoming involved with an rp and then suddenly because they don't like whats going to happen to their character they dismiss it OOCLy it annoys me. When someone does not like the way another rps something and dismisses it OOCLy it also annoys me. I don't try to suggest that people shouldn't have the option to be in certain rps but they should come up with IC reasons for ignoring it.

That is excusable to me if the other party is showing very poor RP skills and only into annoying people.

My complaint on the RP portion of this game is that people are way too focussed on 'RP events' and forget that they should be playing as their characters 99% of the time (leaving 1% for OOC clarifications ). Too many people consider occasionally being part of a big event roleplaying. I don't really. Roleplay doesn't always have to be thrilling or about violent, mindshattering encounters. It is about acting and reacting as your character. A simple chat about the weather can be roleplayed as well.

[Draklar]

Feature that would be useful for that may be something of this sort:
Speaking character portrait that engages in communication with the player, throwing him certain texts based on PC's personality (determined by char creation) and the current situation.
Monster confrontation:
1) "Creature in sight... This may turn dirty."
2) "Fresh meat coming! Hahaha, we will dine tonight!"
3) "They're coming... Let them come..."
Mining:
1) "I could think of better ways to 'earn' money..."
2) "Die, dirt! Die!"
3) "Mindless hitting at a rock... This is what all my past studies brought me to?"
Confrontation with unliked NPC:
1) "Self-righteous sham..."
2) "What a pansy!"
3) "Ugh! Has he heard about bathing?"

If the texts appeared in seperate box and personalities between player characters would conflict (or fit), there may appear out-of-plot conversations:
- "Did your mother clothe you in dresses too?"
- "It's a robe, you half-wit! A robe!"

It would have at least two pros:
- You are not your character! The fact the portrait speaks to player makes a firm borderline between the two. The distance is needed in roleplaying.
- It's harder to stick out of your role if you have someone portraying the role to you all the time.

The drawback may be in character development. Player may decide to have the char slowly change. It can be done with proper system, but I don't know what could be done with that in the system PS uses.

[Cyl]

I hate to be blunt, Coneitic, but you leave me no other choice:

If you don't "care about posting" and "don't feel like typing well" then DON'T. If you don't want to take your time typing, chances are that we won't have the time (and patience) reading. To be frank, most of your posts in this thread could be fitted into quite handily into three paragraphs, as you seem to be constantly repeating yourself. Saying the same thing over and over again won't make any difference on the opinion of others.

Additionally, I'd like to point out that you should spend more time thinking before typing. If you forget to mention something you had thought about, chances are that it isn't that important, or actually redundant. It would be really nice if you refrain from posting your brainstorming and stick to writing up proper posts in the future.

Now to get On Topic:

I hope you realize that a vast majority of PS' userbase has other things to do besides playing Planeshift. "RP Events" and other "major" plots require a lot of time and dedication, and many players simply don't have enough free time to grasp the nettle of such large scale RP - Projects. If you want to take part in a bigger storyline and do have the privilege of having enough time it's best to become proactive yourself and organize something. Talk to your friends, get something going, if you put effort into it, the chances of people jumping on the bandwagon and the undertaking growing in size and options are good.

An issue I see with the current state of RP is that people are lost in their single-track of epic RP. Sadly, significant amount of the PSsers seem to regard anything that doesn't involve having Yliakum at stake and rescuing damsels "below their standards". Looking at some of the RPs that have taken place, I am lead to believe that 90% of the inhabitants of Yliakum are either zealous crusaders or vile barbarians. In the rush for "'ze big stuff" people totally forget that small things can be just as much, or even more entertainment than the stereotypical Good vs. Evil and Chaos vs. Law battle. I seriously miss the good old times when Bodacher used to stand on his barrel offering his goods for sale.

[Coneitic]

I hate to be blunt, Coneitic, but you leave me no other choice:

If you don't "care about posting" and "don't feel like typing well" then DON'T. If you don't want to take your time typing, chances are that we won't have the time (and patience) reading.

i dont care if you read it or if most people read it. it was an off day and i stated that it was alot of ranting and not to read it if you didnt want to. those who cared to read it seemed to understand it. Normally i try to make it neat and gramatically correct as possible if you look back at older post. why is everyone so mad about how i wrote the post? if you dont like it dont read it, dont read further post simple as that.

also my whole point had nothing to do with rp events. it was about rp life. a  charactor having a life a personality in the game and using it constantly in a different world.

another thing that bugged me was this. i noticed alot of noobs that started when i was playing are now in the game and they maxed their stats. so now they are what seems to be a great. why do i see alot of people that since they max their stats and did a few rps they walk around as if they are an elder? does everyone half to be great? doesnt anyone want to be normal and different? i found it real easy on alts to go "well my stats are maxed and ive been in a few rps, so now im going to walk around like im tough cookies" i'd like to see more people who are still unwise even tho they have been around for a while, those that are still constantly learning and know they cant fight everyone. i mean its easy to just talk smack and then pvp and when u die just move on right? wouldnt it be more challenging and creative to set boundries and know you cant win them all, not only knowing you cant win them all but import that to your charactor and back down out of fights sometimes be the coward? whens the last time you went against someone who had maxed stats and showed a little fear to fight or your opponite showed a little fear. i always liked to see that. maybe thats why coneitic constantly got beat up and cut up. lol

well thats just an opinioin of mine dont freak out people. i remember once in irc i asked why cant people play normal charactors instead of great warriors and great evil genius' and an admin quickly responded "oh thats hard play." sarcasticaly. but i believe it is harder to create a unique personality for a charactor thats not all powerful and godly. UTM is great at that, one of the reasons i admire his rp. try it out with an alt people maybe it will be fun..


now back to that list...

[Duraza]

i asked why cant people play normal charactors instead of great warriors and great evil genius'

i found it real easy on alts to go "well my stats are maxed and ive been in a few rps, so now im going to walk around like im tough cookies"

wouldnt it be more challenging and creative to set boundries and know you cant win them all, not only knowing you cant win them all but import that to your charactor and back down out of fights sometimes be the coward?

And this leads me to the thing I want the most to be added to the game. Limitations. Its the one thing I find most needed in the game to improve rp. If every character had limits instead of being able to max every skill this game would seem much better to me. Then people would realize they can't be a warrior/mage/master crafter/whatever other stat they haven't maxed yet. It would limit people to being good at some things and bad at others. It would keep every character from somehow being a master at some weapon skill regardless of what they rp their character to be. The fact is if your a miner why can you slay trepors easily? And why are there always these "mage warriors?" That only sounds like an excuse to be an uber powerful character because you have the best of both worlds. Even if you are a mage warrior then you shouldn't be able to master both skills. If we had limits people wouldn't always be so willing to pvp everyone they saw because they may not have the skill.

I think limits would even stop the RP vs PVP arguments that happen so often. PvPers wouldn't be able to max their stats and become uber powerful and RPers wouldn't be able to complain for the fact that the only thing stopping them from winning, if everyone had limits, is a laziness to train their character in the strengths they rp. I know I have my character Duraza who I'm guilty for never training in Dark way yet claiming to be a Dark Way master. However its the fact that I don't want to max his stats and make him some uber warrior that stops me from PvP. I've even changed the way I rp his ability to fit with his stats (making him an old and feeble man). My other character Xeonart I actually do train. However I train him according to limits I placed on his character. When I rp a fight I go by these limits and I want my stats to reflect the same. Yet even though I train him I'm discouraged from PvP because how many characters do you know who share the same idea? I only know a handful who seem to do the same.

My idea is to have a system in which only certain stats can be maxed, others only to half way, and the rest barely past where they started. The two maxed would be your strengths, the mid way skills wouldn't be strength or weakness, and those that are basically the same as they were at character creation your weaknesses. Maybe you would have 4 weaknesses instead but never more than 2 strengths in stats. Giving too many strengths gives the chances for uber warriors. The same basic idea would be applied to skills where you could only learn a certain few. One might question where is the realisticness if we can't surpass our weaknesses? Well think of it this way for one thing not everyone can. Secondly lets say your a warrior but weak agaisnt magic. A simple way to get around that weakness would be anit magic. If your a mage but physically weak a simple way around that is having strong endurance or will. If you have no real strengths then you would most likely be stuck taking a job such as a merchant or just being normal for the fact that thats what you are.

I truely can't see RP becoming as realistic as possible unless a limitation system is put in place. Either that or people would start trying to play by limits, however you can see that many players aren't going to limit themselves on their own. Limits its what would once and for all seperate this game from all those leveling games that don't stress rp. In those games any character can master every skill, in this game that ability should not be possible.

[ThomPhoenix]

People have always been afraid of this game turning into World of Warcraft. When CB came out most of the MB community just left. Their fears were proven false mostly,though. The real reason they left is because PS wasn't their personal 3D chatbox anymore as more and more people joined it. Players often leave and blame the changes to the game, though it's actually the changes to the community. Losing friends is bad, but you can just make new ones and that's what many forget.

I don't think the addition of crafting influenced roleplaying in any way. It just adds dimension, of course some players will be absorbed by it but nothing's wrong with that. The same thing happens in real life too. In the end roleplaying is not about epic stories but about doing things with a reason besides just spending time. I've seen some pretty good smiths and merchants who spend all their time crafting, but did roleplay, just in their way. With "their way" I mean smithing, not saving the world every day. Good roleplayers and guilds find a balance between making money and roleplaying, I've seen some guilds succeeding at that.

[Coneitic]

i belive my point has been spun around and twisted and rewritten and re argued and whatever.

heres my point.

this game is doing great for questers for grinders. if thats your thing thats awsome the game is evolving great that way. if you like the game 50% for grinding then its going great. my point is the rp part is not evolving. i understand alot of it is in our hands that is why im back with a few others to help change that, to do our part. but a certain responsiblity is left int he devs hands. with no motivation to rp with no encouragement then it only gets worse. simple emotes and certain text an npc recognizes does very little. i have no arguement with the game having lots of quest and levels and crafting. my problem is the way the whole game is evolving and doing nothing about the rp. there are plenty of things to do to ensure a welcoming world of rp and i have a list coming just be patient and you can knit pick that all you want. once again questing is not my enemy. the lack of change in the rp is.

and my problem with kada's is simple. once kada left it was a great place for rp and the fact that there were many different bartenders to keep you coming in to have a conversation. friends you knew. people who just wanted to see who was working. also a great way ot make money without grinding. by strict rping. i made quite a bit by runnign to oja and getting all the ales and coming back. i started to afford hiring people to make runs for me and so forth. im not saying everyone needs to just it was a different asspect of the game that was more rp oriented now its an npc and it doesnt have that same feel. hell, even i offered mugs there so it at least looked like you were drinking.

so do you guys understand. im not waging a war against the quest and lvls in the game, im waging a war at the lack of rp evolution in this game. and i really think its the lowest priority on the list. does this make more since?

[Socius Rockus]

does this make more since?

I don't know,, but that last sentence at least doesn't make much sense.

RP evolution... I don't think Devs can implement that yet. It's really hard to manipulate the brains of the players So badly only with some color and sound of a game.
To get Rp you need player, to have an RP too, To maintain an RP once again you need Players and to start one too. One can even RP in IRC, So RP has got nothing to do wioth the Devs, the only thing (But important IMHO) they do for the RP is to make it more easy to RP. I mean it's easier to RP to be in a bar when there actually is a bar that you can see, it all makes it easier for the mind. It alsoads limits so that it become more realistic, like When you walk from Ojaveda to Hydlaa it takes time, you aren't there by typing "And so Socius  traveled from Ojaveda to hydlaa".

[ThomPhoenix]

There already are lots of emotes (use /emote list) but if you know some really important ones that are missing, then tell us!
The NPCs not recognizing much sentences is a known problem (duh), it has been talked about sooooo much that I'm disappointed you bring it up.
Doing nothing about RP? RP opportunities have been rocketing lately! The devs have introduced maps and books you can make for yourself now and there will be a guildhouse very very soon. So that's a weak point.

About the bar: most bars have more than one bartender. What's stopping you from standing next to the bartender and RP like you used to? You don't have to run around for ales anymore, but isn't that handy? It wasn't realistic that Hydlaa had no ales at all anyway.

I'm looking forward to your "List of Improvement".
Just make sure it's a list with depth and reason.