and note... the he/she thing for laanx in the settings section of the main site is _not_ an inconsistancy. read it again.
You missed the part where Laanx is referred to as "his" and "she" in the same sentence:
Laanx spoke, showing completely his true essence. - I'm Laanx - she said - and I'm your god.-
That is an inconsistency and has been pointed out on the forum several times before.
From Kran description:
They are from 1.90 m to 2.10 m tall.
From Ynnwn description:
They are from 2.00 m to 2.30 m tall.
This has also been pointed out on the forum before. A mod responded that it's probably a "typo" but the site was still not fixed after the response, not even with the updated website design. This description also exists on the original PlaneShift 2D website, which was written in Italian and later translated into English for the current site. So, if it is a "typo", it has been dragged along the way since the original. Either change the description or change the model scale to make Ynnwn taller than Kran.
From the Races description:
For common genetic rules, any half-breed will have a prevailing race that will determine its physical traits. For this reason, the main races are relatively pure. In other words, it can't happen that the races merge together forming a single mixed race: if someone has a lemur father and an elf mother, he will belong to one race or to the other.
The Ynnwn race is a strange but relatively frequent crossing between a Diabolo and an Elf. Two such opposite characters generate a type of giant, never shorter than two meters, with dark red skin.
Regarding the Diaboli...
Diaboli (as talked about in a PM): Their oil black skin conflicts with both the art, and the properties of 3D graphics and art. Black can not be used as a *good* texture, so the race description must be changed.
The current Diaboli model uses an Ynnwn model as a "placeholder". Anyway, changing the Diaboli description to have a different skin color is a cop out. There are ways to make the black texture look good. Other games have done it before.
In fact if you read the descriptions both in the game guide and related notes in the books you can find in Yilakum... the idea that the Diaboli are some sort of demon-like humanoids is not so far fetched (and probably was the original idea of Luca)
The original idea was most likely not of Luca but of Mauro, who wrote the settings for PlaneShift 2D. The same Diaboli description can be found on their old site, which is written in Italian. You can use BabelFish to translate it. In fact, what comes out is quite interesting and amusing. I've highlighted some of the more interesting parts.
An other race from the unusual characteristics. Of the origin of the Diaboli it is not known practically null. One they popular tradition you would see them coming from from a earth in which the land he perhaps burns and he emits smoke (index of vulcanica activity), from the dark and perennially cloudy sky and with solforosi rivers in which they slide blood and liquami. However such memories do not seem much reliable, even if some student has succeeded in to declare that the Diaboli would come from an other perhaps unexplored universe. He is of fact that still is the only race that succeeds in to declare that Yliakum is a true paradise, sign that their previous native land had indeed to be tenebrous.
The diabolo typical he has the black skin and he polishes like the pece, one thin tail with tip to bony arrow and court corna. To part these details, have pressappoco the same physical proportions of the men and nearly identical inner organs. The diabole possess practical feminine attributes generally a lot detach and a natural talent to you towards the sexual ones. Very rarely problems are made on the choice of the partner and consequently they generate the greater number of mezzosangue. The hypothesis of their origin to extraglide down would seem suffragata from the fact that various diseases and poisons that would damage a human, a dwarf or a elfo, on they have effect very little.
They are people allegro, confusionario, malicious, not much reliable one and incapable to demonstrate every shape of humility, moreover they seem to familiarize in way suspicion with some razze of umanoidi intelligent seeds that popolano the Cavities. Finally, from always they have developed one risen of allergy towards all the religion and cult shapes. E' rare to see a diabolo in a tempio, less than not has been carried with the force or has something a lot important to make, and scrupulously avoids every contact with the sacred objects usually handles to you from the clergymen. Above all the holy water.
It seems that Diaboli were originally supposed to be immune to poison and disease (good idea and makes sense). However, that part is gone from the description now (bad idea), and the "bonus saving throw vs elemental spells" is obviously not the same thing. Instead, the poison and disease immunity is only applied to Kran, and partial resistance (bonus saving throw) is applied to Dwarves. It also doesn't explain exactly how they developed an "allergy" towards religion. Most likely none of the developers know because no one wrote the settings for it. It seems more like a "pull it from out of the blue" sort of thing, which is exactly why Jeraphon could not answer the question of "Is Black Flame holy?" posted a while ago on this forum. The closest he came to was "we don't know".
There are a lot of other interesting differences. For example, it says that Xacha's continent was sinking instead of being overpopulated as it is stated on the official site now. And the Klyros description is a lot more detailed. I've highlighted the interesting parts as well.
One says that the Klyros people are not how much rather with than individuals. Nearly all the members of this strange race are introverts, misantropi and tendentially egoist. Many, moreover, hold a lot in spregio their same life to complete absurd and apparently rischiose actions for the taste to make it or only to demonstrate their superiority. First klyros they were constantly dominates to you from a trouble compound, anger, melancholy and deep depreciation. However, in the course of the centuries, this they bizzarra characteristic has been mitigated much to allow the cohabitation with the other people.
The klyros they are of the coming from semihumans from an other universe, passes you through a portale determine the proportions them to the albori of was modern. For some reason, their continuous body to fluctuate completely between the two plans of existence, seeming sometimes solid and concrete, sometimes translucido until becoming one thin and impalpabile dark shadow. Some klyros possess a good control on the phenomenon, what that allows they to avoid many of the connected disadvantages and to be useful for the pregi, while others never do not succeed to assimilate such art.
They appear like umanoidi, from the grey skin, smooths down and glabra. They have thin eyes and infossati, final long and lean limbs with hands and feet claw to you. They are stronger and resistant than how much do not make to suppose their esile constitution, and are equips you of deep determination and one incrollabile will. They have a insopportabile character for the greater part of the other yliakumici, they do not hold in no account the other people's requirements and they are behaved so that even a diabolo it would consider unforeseeable, varying in the space of a moment from the calmness to ira the more blind person and from most vile codardia to the complete incoscienza. They live mostly on the lower levels and less it illuminates to you.
Seems like a contradiction upon a contradiction within the above quote. I wonder if this description still holds true.
Anyway, the only way to really know if Diaboli were really inspired to be demons or demonic is if Luca still keeps in touch with Mauro Zanetti and can ask him personally. However, it is a lot more likely that they are demonic than not. Also, until and unless their name is changed, it is very much a part of their demonic nature.
Here are some facts that we do know about Diaboli (something that has been pointed out on the forums many times as well)
- The name Diaboli means "Devil" or "of the Devil" in Latin, as in the famous expression "Advocatus Diaboli", which means "Devil's Advocate". ("demon" is a synonym of "devil")
- Diaboli are malicious.
- They have horns, tails and in fact, look like a very popular representation of a demon/devil that most are familiar with.
- Diaboli avoid holy/religious/blessed places and items, especially "holy water". If they are not Demons, then they must be Undead! Take your pick.
- Their native homeland is described as "...a burning land that continuously erupted black smoke (this may suggest the presence of a volcano), a dark and perpetually cloudy sky and sulphuric rivers of flowing blood". In fact, they often say that demons smell of sulphur.
- During character creation, picking a "Diaboli village" gives one a bonus in Red Way of magic. The Red Way of magic is primarily Chaos.
- As has been mentioned before, they are promiscuous.
- They used to come up with fun ways of dying just to visit the Death Realm because it attracted them. Until they realized that too many trips were too draining.
These are indeed similarities that betray the OOC concept that they were influenced by, but there's still a major difference between "demon-like humaniods" (which are simply people with an appearance similar to a subsection of the RL "demonic" concept), and "demons of sorts", which means true demons.
And you base your "major difference" example on what exactly? How many "demon-like humanoids" that are vulnerable to "holy" stuff (but are not demons) have you seen in real life? And I do mean *seen*. And if your example is based on games/fantasies, then it obviously does not equal a "major difference".
It is obvious that the Diaboli concept is inspired by a particular type of "demon" (which is by no means the only possible type). However, "demons" are still significantly different from "people" (like having supernatural abilities that are not accounted for by magic (otherwise everyone else would be demons as well)
They are the only ones of all PS races who have a "bonus saving throw vs elemental spells", which could be considered a supernatural ability. They are the only ones who are vulnerable to "holy/blessed/sacred places and objects", which could be considered a supernatural vulnerability. Unless, of course, you can explain how a religion suddenly turned into a biological/chemical reaction. You can't without really reaching or sounding incredibly silly. Keep in mind, if attempting to explain this, that it is the *whole race* that has developed an "allergy" to religion, not a particular culture within Diaboli. The settings make no exception for Diaboli who might've grown up in a Laanx-crazed Lemur village or Talad-crazed Kran village, for example. That means that every newborn Diaboli automatically has that "allergy", which implies a biological/chemical reaction to... religion.
...or to come from some other place individually and (have to) return there often, instead of living in and being bound to a place just like anyone else).
Is this conclusion by any chance based on real life Christianity concepts that you recommend against being used when discussing Diaboli? If not, then it's not a fact that they "have" to return to some particular place at all.
Additionally, I have trouble imagining that a true demon would prefer Yliakum over hell.
Why not? How many different demons do you know? Have you asked them what they prefer? Or are you once again basing it on real life Christianity concepts? Maybe these demons prefer Yliakum for the simple reason that they get to do their malicious and mischievous activities in a new area? Maybe it's all a one big adventure to them.
They may be inclined to turn it into hell, but that simply means they do not like it as-is.
You are missing one key point in this statement. Diaboli are the *ONLY* race that likes Yliakum "as-is" and thinks of it as a "paradise", so they don't need to change it in the first place. It's the *other* races, who aren't particularly fond of Yliakum's conditions. Here's a quote from Diaboli description:
Nonetheless, their race is the only one who thinks of Yliakum as a real paradise, and this says a lot about their homeland.
As for "playing with death" (being decidedly neutral on the DR in general), this is just as possible for anyone as for them, emphasized by the remainder of that paragraph in the book which, in fact, only cites this as an example for just this general possibility.
And yet, it's Diaboli that first came to the author's mind as an "example", and no one else.
Also, the same arguments can be applied to declare that Kran are in fact rock golems, except that their name isn't "Golemi".
Except that Kran's name is Kran and not "Golemi", while Diaboli's name *IS* Diaboli and not something else. Asking for its change shows that you *need* it in an attempt to argue your point. It doesn't work like that. The name is part of the equation.
Also, the particular concept of "demon" that the Diaboli are OOC-ly influenced by does not exist in Yliakum...
It doesn't need to. As you said yourself "influenced by", so Diaboli as demons are a concept that is influenced by some other concept of demons OOC-ly.
...therefore declaring them "demons" would drag into PS the RL hell, which lives in conjunction with RL heaven, which again drags in Christianity and subsequently the religions which spawned Christianity, etc., which are changes so major that they would also have had to be part of the original concept, and as such at least be mentioned somewhere on the mainsite.
Actually, some of the things you mentioned about Christianity already *have* been dragged into the settings and mentioned there. For example, the holy/blessed/sacred vulnerability for Diaboli. Or are you going to argue that it's some new and original concept that is yet another "pure coincidence" for Diaboli? Besides, ever heard of variations on traditional concepts? You may also want to learn about the word "daemon", which the word "demon" came from. Originally, "daemon" is a supernatural being, sometimes "half god and half mortal", which can be anything from good to evil to somewhere in-between. Maybe Diaboli are, in fact, *daemons* instead of *demons* or one and the same.
That they aren't (which has been explicitely stated by PS staff), means that the Diaboli simply are not demons, and really just a sort of OOC lookalike to an RL (not PS) concept.
"Look-alike", "feel-alike", "behave-alike", "vulnerability-to-holy-alike"... It doesn't have to be explicitly stated on a website to be heavily influenced by it, and it doesn't mean that they aren't demons.
IOW, your argument is precisely why "Diaboli" is not a good choice of a name: "similar-to" does not mean "is-a".
Does not mean "are not" demons either. Once again, you seem to have a desperate need to change Diaboli's name into something else just to claim more credibility for your argument. Without it, you can't. It's like you arguing that Kran can fly without a mount and then asking to implement an ability for Kran to fly on their own, so you can later claim that you were "right" all along.
Be it as it may, I agree that the Diaboli are in some parts unnecessarily similar to the "demon" comcept.
Why "unnecessarily"? Diaboli as demons/daemons is a *FUN* concept. They may not be fully "traditional" demons in every sense nor should they be but they are some type of daemons/demons nonetheless, judging by all the available info we have available so far. If they are not demons of Hell, then they are demons of Chaos, a concept which has been used in other games before without "dragging" in the traditional "fire and brimstone" concepts.
...there is no explanation for why Diaboli would be excessively vulnerable to blessed things just because they're blessed (as opposed to ADD-style "special damage vs. <race>" items). This should also be considered as a possibly inconsistency.
Or maybe it's another proof for why they are, in fact, demons. If Diaboli are not demons, then perhaps you should be asking the devs to remove the vulnerability to "religious" stuff altogether instead of changing their name.
Similarly, the idea of an entire race that is "malicious" (regardless of the actual definition of that word) is a bit off IMO. These are exactly the reasons why I have stated in other threads that the concept of the Diaboli race doesn't sit well with me, BTW, but I didn't put it here because it's not necessarily an inconsistency; it's more a conscient decision that possibly should be reevaluated.
But the idea that the *entire race* is vulnerable to holy/sacred/blessed/religious stuff is somehow ok?
Don't forget that the settings have been written by a real person, who grew up in the real world and was influenced by its concepts.
It's starting to look like some people who play this game are simply too conservative or maybe even too religious. Maybe they simply fear the demons and demonic concepts.
Perhaps some of these questions could be answered, if the developers have actually bothered to answer the
monthly Q&A, which seem to have been forgotten.
