Quests. The most disappointing PS aspect.

[Maju]

I love making quests... but I hate that the quests dynamics is such that you cannot really enjoy that. The situation has come to a point that I'm questioning if I can play PS at all while this issue is unsolved.

Problem no.1: You need to say certain exact phrases in most quests... but you may have no idea which some of these sentences are. It's a matter of guessing but often is not any easy guess. The "mystery" surrounding quests' exact sentences is such that the exact form of these sentences can only be discussed in very close circles (always OOC, naturally) like in-game friends and guild. In many cases other players may not know the reply maybe because they never did that quest or because they forgot about the exact answer (notice that ridiculous differences like "sent" and "send" or "up" and "upwards" can mean that you can continue/finish the quest of ou get stuck).

Problem no. 2: often you get quests that you can't solve (at least normally) with your stats. Maybe you need an ulbernaut heart or carrying a weight that is double of what you can.

Problem no. 3: unfinished quests can interfere with other quests. The theory says that you must do quests one by one... but often you have no clear idea of what the quest is about until you are deep into it. Example: "want to learn a job?" "yes" "you got a quest" "you need to bring me two steel stocks" "what?! I can't even make steel ingots, I can carry only like six ores and I'm not interested in making shields anyhow, mr. Smith". It doesn't matter: you have to finish that quest if you want to be sure that it won't interfere with others in the future.

Problem no. 4: you can't abandon a quest (now not even GMs can remove them for you).

My experience says that, with some experience (that is in your 7th or 8th char), you can do most quests... but, if you are into questing there will be a number of them that you won't be able to solve because any of the reasons above. In few cases the quest itself did not provide sufficient information as to where to find the item to finish it (and there are too many NPCs in Yilakum as to be asking all of them, much less with no know key sentence).

Most quests are just plain silly (give some faction points, a few trias and some experience and that's all - they are in fact not worth the effort of having to run all around Yilakum to finish them) but a few are strategica tehy may give glyphs, jobbooks or access to the winch area)l. Now, the common player can't know which is which. Only someone with a cheatsheet may know. This gives too much power to the few privileged players that have access to those cheatsheets, leaving the rest dependant on them, what is totally unfair.

There's no mystery in quests: just unsolvable problems for the independent quest-doer. The fact that they can't be discussed openly in the official forums doesn't help but "clandestine" info-holder power vortices (no mystery but corruption based in "unspeakable" privileged information that becomes a tool for in-game power). The fact that they can't be discarded only adds to the difficulty.

In the end the game becomes impossible to play. And really I don't feel like playing an impossible game or to have to beg for the cheatsheet.

So, until this issue is solved, I will not play the game anymore, I fear. I have playtested enough and these are my conclussions: the quest system sucks, what makes the game suck.

See you.

[Seneche]

I do agree with your point on Problem 1, but even still, isn't there more to Planeshift than just quests? You have the community, smithing, mining, fighting, magic, etc, your not just limited to quests. The game is still not even finished, isn't it a little early to give up before something is presentable? What other game is even similar to PS, in community, or game value? Its like when you get a bug on a beta application on your computer, do you just throw it out, or wait for a patch? In any case, we will miss you  , and I hope that they fix the quest applications too, because while I work on other tasks, they can be frustrating.

[Izzabella]

I think the questing system has come a long way and is doing great, and I see improvments all the time.

infact I dont think #3 is an issue anymore because I have just recently had several quests open even been able to successfully deal with an NPC that I had a quest open with. So I'd like to say thanks for all they hard work that goes into the quest system and I doubt you guys are done yet

[Jeraphon]

Problem no.1: You need to say certain exact phrases in most quests

Wrong.

Even when given an exact phrase to say, there are usually more than a dozen other variations that work. If you can't read exactly what was said to you, that's not the fault of settings.

[bilbous]

Number two is not quite right either because you do not need to acquire the item from its source for anyway. You need steel stock ask a smelter to sell you some, you need an ulbernaut heart buy one from someone fighting ulbernauts. As for the anvil quest you are warned it is an extremely heavy piece of equipment, it would be better if perhaps the exact weight was mentioned but you can get strength potions.

I have had fairly good luck getting info from people in game by vaguely describing my errand and complaining about the particular problem I am having. E.G.: "This guy sent me to get some Kranberries and I talked to this other person who told me Johnny had some but I cannot get Johnny to talk about them." You want to be vague enough that someone who has done the errand can identify it but someone who hasn't does not get too much information.

[Sen]

The issue about having to guess the right phrases for making progress in a quest did improve the last time. Nevertheless it is still there sometimes and shouldn't be just denied.

But like Seneche said, quests are only a part of the game. I think to stop playing just because of that would be a mistake - even if you now have several blocked quests.

[Jeraphon]

The issue about having to guess the right phrases for making progress in a quest did improve the last time. Nevertheless it is still there sometimes and shouldn't be just denied.

I agree, and they're constantly improving "for future generations." (meaning if something is pointed out that should be added, we add it but the person who pointed it out won't be able to use it in their instance of the quest.) There is a limit, however, only so many phrase variations should be added, and I think that our quests understand a lot more than most early text adventures did. If you've ever played Zork, you should realize how intuitive PS quests are in comparison. (And if you haven't played Zork, you should. It's free online by now, I'm sure)

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

As stated elsewhere priority 1 server stability, priority 2 npc client stability, priority 3 npc dialogue system.

Settings has made every effort to alleviate the "guess the phrase" problem and a whole host of other concerns.

Now we patiently wait our turn in the priority scale, and guess what? So do the players .

Maju if you really enjoy quests, but find them problematic, I have trouble believing that is the worst part of the game for you.  Enjoy your break. Maybe little faeries will come down from the crystal and make everything better while you are gone.

As to the existence of cheat sheets the existence of these means SOMEONE solved the quests. I do not think players should be given a clear walkthrough as to where to get everything they want. These exist for most games however because it is an inevitability that people will get stuck at certain points. For instance i have used them when a game puzzle was color perception dependent, as i am color-blind. What I mean here is while cheat sheets will always exist, I do not think PS should provide the community with one.

None of this is to deny that there are issues with quests, there are and we all (devs and players) know it. The stock answer never changes, it just takes time.

[RIP]

The game is fun, plain and simple. Some of the mechanics need tweaking, which being a beta game is being done, but all in all PS is a fun game.

I have to admit I have gotten upset about some of the quest ‘key phrases’ myself and have swore up a storm at my computer monitor. But eventually I sit back, take a deep breath, move on to something else and come back to that quest later. Quite honestly, a silly thing that bothers me that is not a game problem it is a role-play aspect of questing. One of my characters talks funny, (Collier: “Hey! Who ya say’n is talkin funny?”). When dealing with NPC’s I have to take him out of character to hit the key words. (But that’s my problem, not the games.)

Anyway, my name is Rip and I’m a PlaneShift junky... 

[The Chief]

I am so frustrated with the interaction with NPCs in quests that I'm about to just bag this whole experience. I even eventually guess the right things to say, but giving people money for items? Complete disaster. I spent 45 minutes today trying to get 1 damn wooden sword from Gregori, and every time I give him 50 tria, he takes it, system says he doesn't need it, and I get nothing. I've wasted money and time, and it's just too frustrating. I'm doing everything right, but the poor interaction dynamic has just completely exhausted my patience.

[Maju]

Problem no.1: You need to say certain exact phrases in most quests

Wrong.

Even when given an exact phrase to say, there are usually more than a dozen other variations that work. If you can't read exactly what was said to you, that's not the fault of settings.
[/quote]

It depends on the quest. Example:

NPC: "What have you found about the sword?"

Known data: It's intelligent, evil, its name is XX (spoiler) and spellYY makes certain effect (spoiler)

Correct answer: "about ancient sword" 

Try saying anything that you really know and you fail miserably. Try reading a cheatsheet and you do it blindfolded.

There are others that are equally messy. There are many that are fine but when you have started maybe 40 quests, it's likely that you have half a dozen quests, often the most strategical and complex ones, that have this problem (and/or other problems that don't allow you to finish them).

infact I dont think #3 is an issue anymore because I have just recently had several quests open even been able to successfully deal with an NPC that I had a quest open with. So I'd like to say thanks for all they hard work that goes into the quest system and I doubt you guys are done yet

Well, the GM I asked to blamed it in that bug and it may well be the case because once I got the correct answers, I could not make the NPC say anything but inconsistencies.

Maybe the bug is in something else, maybe when you change tab to exchange with guildmates/friends/people around, the NPC loses track of the conversation. Maybe if you don't reply correctly in the first occasion, then NPC loses track. Not sure but the case is that the known good answers don't work sometimes.

Number two is not quite right either because you do not need to acquire the item from its source for anyway. You need steel stock ask a smelter to sell you some, you need an ulbernaut heart buy one from someone fighting ulbernauts. As for the anvil quest you are warned it is an extremely heavy piece of equipment, it would be better if perhaps the exact weight was mentioned but you can get strength potions.

I think NPCs should just not give you quests that you can't do with your current stats. Alternatively it could be fixed if you could trade while sitting (so you could ask/hire someone else to carry the brutal weight for you). The weight problem doesn't just happen with the anvil, but also with a quest from Harnquist where he asks for about 15 ores and a quest from another NPC where she asks for a beer keg that weights 120 pounds. No warning is given in either one, nor the NPC seems able to discern if you are strong enough for that job.

There are no ulber hearts in the market. I've been putting auction signs for the last several days and nothing. I even spent leghty ours killing ulbers slowly with my weak magic... only to get no loot at all.

You have the community, smithing, mining, fighting, magic, etc, your not just limited to quests.

But quests (or rather the inability to finish them) limit me: I can't get the glyph I wanted for my char, I can't get access to the winch area... all those things need quests. There's no way around (maybe you can buy the glyph but not the Winch area access). I really don't want to play a game where I can't obtain what I want (and what I legitimately may deserve) without cheating. It just gets me frustrated and angry.

I am so frustrated with the interaction with NPCs in quests that I'm about to just bag this whole experience. I even eventually guess the right things to say, but giving people money for items? Complete disaster. I spent 45 minutes today trying to get 1 damn wooden sword from Gregori, and every time I give him 50 tria, he takes it, system says he doesn't need it, and I get nothing. I've wasted money and time, and it's just too frustrating. I'm doing everything right, but the poor interaction dynamic has just completely exhausted my patience.

I didn't even try that one. But that's the kind of glitch that gets me mad. The fact that quests can't be discussed openly doesn't help at all solving these glitches. Each time I've said that something doesn't work, the answers I get are:
- Try some other sentence (which one? I'm saying literally what I'm supposed to say)
- Have you another unfinished quest? (Sure, many quests are impossible to finish)
- We can't discuss these things as they would be spoilers (spolied is what I am now)

This attitude doesn't help at all. After all some players do have the spoilers (because they belong to some powerful guild or something) and that allows them to progress, while the common independent player can't. It's a fraud.

[Jeraphon]

- Have you another unfinished quest? (Sure, many quests are impossible to finish)

Current number of quests that are impossible to finish (ie broken beyond ability to complete:)

Zero.

NPC: "What have you found about the sword?"

That's been changed for some time now. Please stop assuming quests don't change and spreading your half-truths. We've been listening to our players. Most quests are spoon-fed to you verbatim and when they're not we get whiny bitchy crap like this.

You don't like it? Don't do quests.

Don't like that? There's the door.

See you.

Oh wait. You already said that. Why are you still here?

[Eliseth]

A few things I'd like to add, though xil and jeraphon have pretty much covered it all.

First...

It just gets me frustrated and angry.

You get angry for silly reasons then 

Second, instead of complaining about quests, why not suggest changes. We're not all perfect you know, the people who write the quests work bloody hard on them and they do occasionally miss little glitches, if you come across these, don't come running to the complaints forum, contact the team with the problem and maybe suggest an alternative. (Bug tracker is there for a reason).

And lastly, stop getting so upset about a game, it'll only raise your blood pressure. As Jeraphon said, they do try their best to correct errors in quests as soon as they can. Oh and you can have a lot of fun without getting into the winch, in fact the winch really isn't all that exciting. I've gone more than a year without bothering with quests much, and I've had tons of fun simply by roleplaying.

Words to live by: make do.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

once again I made a calm polite post and it has been ignored while the ranting goes on, seriously it sickens me. People come at this forum with some really weird angles. For our players who do read the devs responses closely please translate for the people who do not care what we write. Remember that everyone on settings began as a player, we know the frustration players sometimes feel.

[Jeraphon]

Oh and you can have a lot of fun without getting into the winch, in fact the winch really isn't all that exciting.

Sure it is.