Author Topic: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling  (Read 6699 times)

Aerianna Kzin

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 118
  • We have come to teach...
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2007, 08:16:25 pm »
* Aerianna Kzin hugs Xillix "your doing a great job keep it up"


Okay I will admit I have not read all of the posts skimed though most of them, but really guys everyone take a deep breath, and calm down. Everything is going to be okay.
I do admit I am not 100% fully happy with the gold nerf, but that's life, I am not so happy with my own rl finanaces eaither, but I do what I can to get by from day to day. The idea is they are working on things, testing diffrent ideas, and seeing what works and what does not, and we as the players and the testers have to give it a fair trial with an open mind.

No one can work with people always putting them down and complaining, try encouragement every once and awhile, you might be pleastly suprized.

Just remeber, the glass is not always half emtpy, but sometimes it is half full.


*Edit

I'd also like to add that I have two char's that roleplay a lot, and one of them has to be strong in her roleplay so I have to do some "powerleveling" but honestly that bores me quite quickly and, yes it has become very hard to train her up, but not impossable, and with all the hard work I put into her it just makes me even more proud. and I roleplay trough most of my training as well. It's not hard to do to both, and I know lots do it. For me the game is more about Roleplay, I have had many frineds quit this game in the short time I have been playing and they have tired to get me to go with them, I have tried a few other mmorpg's, they have player names like bannaman and 2cute or whatever adn  they dont have any roleplay, that's what I enjoy the most.

I do have one complaint about the gold thing however, nothing major but I do think its a tad hard to get any if you are a weak noob, not only can you not hold  much, and  you run out of mental stamina extreemly fast, and you have to dig for a long time to get any...but on top of all this..you are also threated by extreemly strong ulbers....if you ask me thats a tad overkill..but I am sure  you have  your reasons.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 08:25:56 pm by Aerianna Kzin »

Duraza

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 761
    • View Profile
    • Want to know the truth now?
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2007, 08:51:45 pm »
and I roleplay trough most of my training as well. It's not hard to do to both, and I know lots do it.

*claps* I finally don't feel like some weird rp freak when I role play hunting tefusangs and I talk to myself.... :'(

Can't we all... just... get along? ;)

Never.  :P

Duraza, I don't know of a game, where we had it. But then i don't know a single MMO truely RP. I consider PS inside it as of this moment. Maybe that's why its called tech demo? But that is why i give idea, so hopefully it is going to change.

I was just playing. Fact is I've had to much disappointed with the lack of rping in other MMORPGs. Then I don't like table top games because there is too much rp and too little game mechanics for me...Right now I have a few problems with ps but so far its the best for me so I'm probably not going to change....plus since so few games support macs I really have no choice (p.s. I'm really grateful for you guys supporting mac else I'd be bored....)
Saggi Lezeheso, The Whisper's Jest
Demoik and Rioqura, The Immortal Harrow
Vertum, Will of Dakkru

Duraza Darkom, Slayer of Kittens

Cebot

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 161
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2007, 09:18:53 pm »
No one can work with people always putting them down and complaining, try encouragement every once and awhile, you might be pleastly suprized.

So true! It seems like some people only post when complaining or having problems, just look through all the forum, there's hardly any post saying how great the game is, how great it is that the devs put THEIR FREE TIME into the game, how great it is to have a game that differs from all the other games out there, how great it is that this game is totally free.

Seriously people, I wonder why the devs are so calm most of the time, people are calling down their work every now and then and still the devs are polite to you guys most of the time - think about it, think about how you would react if you were a dev in this game and people were flaming you all the time...

Keep it going guys, you do a great job, thanks for this game.

I'd also like to add that I have two char's that roleplay a lot, and one of them has to be strong in her roleplay so I have to do some "powerleveling" but honestly that bores me quite quickly and, yes it has become very hard to train her up, but not impossable, and with all the hard work I put into her it just makes me even more proud. and I roleplay trough most of my training as well. It's not hard to do to both, and I know lots do it.
Agreed too. It's possible to powerlevel a char to max stats and almost maxed weapon skill within two weeks, not to forget armor and magic - and you will still find the time to roleplay this char most of the time. Think it's impossible to get a char up in skills and stats that fast and still rp all the time? Well, I have done it, I had the time to PL him, I had the time to make up a RP story for him, to give him a history that explains why he is doing what he is doing and I had time to do quests with him too, at the same time I had the time to sometimes even play with Cebot. So you see, it is possible to train and rp, just remember that you do not need 200k to begin with, remember that you do not have to boringly stay in front of a gladiator to fight it, remember that they are gladiators and use tactics too, so think about tactics you could use to beat em when you are too weak.

For me the game is more about Roleplay, I have had many frineds quit this game in the short time I have been playing and they have tired to get me to go with them, I have tried a few other mmorpg's, they have player names like bannaman and 2cute or whatever adn  they dont have any roleplay, that's what I enjoy the most.
I also tried another mmorpg. it is like choosing a class, being totally restricted to that class until you have killed enough mobs to be lvl 10, then you can choose between 2 subclasses (archer: hunter / marksman) quests are boring as there is no real interaction with the npc, you just click on the npc with the BIG FAT ! above the head. and the best, I got told that most mmorpg's are like that. I know a lot have tried the same game and some have returned to PS, but why did they return? ps is soooo crappy according to what so many people say, yet the people come back after playing a finished comercial game for some time - a wild guess: most mmorpg's do not deserve the RP in the name and thats what people were missing? *shrugs* Welcome back everyone, btw :)
It saddens me tho that some of my earlier PS friends have left. but who knows, hopefully they will come back one day too.

I do have one complaint about the gold thing however, nothing major but I do think its a tad hard to get any if you are a weak noob, not only can you not hold  much, and  you run out of mental stamina extreemly fast, and you have to dig for a long time to get any...but on top of all this..you are also threated by extreemly strong ulbers....if you ask me thats a tad overkill..but I am sure  you have  your reasons.
There are 3 gold mines in game right now, since i haven't got my crafting char to play for a while i dunno how "dry" the mines really are, but for the case that all 3 are equally "dry", then why mining at the dangerous ones with an ulber horde around instead of the save one? :)

At the end i can only say: Great post Aeri! Probably one of the best in all the thread
So why do I love when I still feel pain?
When does it end, when is my work done?
Why do I fight and why do I feel that
I carry a sword, that I carry a sword through a battlefield?

VNV Nation - Joy

Aiken

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2007, 11:45:31 pm »
There are 3 gold mines in game right now, since i haven't got my crafting char to play for a while i dunno how "dry" the mines really are, but for the case that all 3 are equally "dry", then why mining at the dangerous ones with an ulber horde around instead of the save one? :)

Where is the 3rd gold mine? Please. Of the mines I know of one has working ulbers which get dumped in the silver mine, the other has ulbers that just stand there and what was the 3rd mine I knew about is now a coal mine.



A couple of things I don't get are

1. Why does the game have to be realistic? People seem to want it a realistic as possible. Realism got thrown out the window with the Enki, Kran, Klyros and us living in a stalagtite. I would have thought being consistant through out the world would have been more important. If I wanted the real world I would not be playing a computer game.

2. Why should there be a problem with people want to train to be a fighter?. What about a crafter? Both are making use of the game mechanics as provided by the developers. To be good at either you have to put the time/effort/trias into it. If people want realism, it is realistic that people study hard and put a lot of effort into something but if they do that in game they are hit with the derogatory term power leveler. They are expected to role play instead. I have just role payed I made a Q290 short sword instead of my normal Q100+. Who will give me 30k trias for it?

Anyone? I am down to my last 8 trias so another 30k would nice. :)

If people want to rp strong characters they should have the stats to back it up which is going to mean training. I still think someone typing "/me kills an ulber" in Main is nothing compared to someone that says I'll be back in 10 minutes and drops a skin at your feet when they return. I wish people would let others play the game how they want. Anywhere from from the pure role play types through to those that want to explore the game mechanics to their limit and all those people somewhere in between the 2 extremes. The name calling of power leveler or role play nazis does not help.

In case no one guessed I am still exploring the game mechanics working out what can/can not be done. If I wanted pure role play I would find a few people to sit around a table playing D&D. With what the game offers I don't think role play and nothing else should be forced onto players that don't want pure roll play.
Beware the grue.

Zan

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1944
  • Just a regular guy, with an irregular soul
    • View Profile
    • Photography
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2007, 02:37:57 am »
Zan you are right, our big concern is how to do so without people exploiting such rp rewarding systems, but don't go thinking we do not want the same thing.

Oh but I don't doubt that, Xillix ;) I know we're on the same side. I might have different ideas from time to time but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate what you guys do to get this game where it should be. If I had the time and knowledge I'd apply for the team and work with you all ... but since I don't I'll just do my part by throwing ideas on here and encouraging roleplay in-game.
Zan Drithor, Member of the Vaalnor Council
Tyrnal Relhorn, Captain of the Vaalguard
Thromdir Shoake, Merchant
Giorn Kleaver, Miner.

Grayne Dholm, Follower of Dakkru

Natrina

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 374
    • View Profile
    • The Dark Empire
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2007, 06:58:27 am »
[Note: I don't have time to read the whole thread, but as I'm leaving for three full days I'm going to give my five cents now anyway.]

I've been playing this game for almost four years. There's people that played for more, there's people that played for less, that's not the point. The idea here is that I've been playing this game for four years because I believe in it. Many of us do and still leave due to the pressure the community puts in them and because they lose that which I still have, that being hope and expectation in the potential of this game.

 People divide themselves between powerlevelers and roleplayers and there is a room for both of us in this game, for now. Powerlevelers, supplementing their actions with bug reports, help the game mechanics grow better, the roleplayers help make a society. The only time I actually took a big break from PlaneShift (about a year, I think...) was because the migration was made from MB to CB and the only thing you did was fight. I dislike fighting from core and the society that once existed by force quickly vanished, as did my own guild, Bloodclaw, so I left.

 I'm still here now (due to the DE, no questions about that) and as far as I know I'll remain as long as life lets me. We love this game and the people that do it for us, but sometimes... we have questions. Sometimes it seems that you're moving away from what we want and so, we voice it, we complain. Are we wrong? I don't think so. Let's check the things you did since 019. What was the first thing you implemented, in terms of content, after it happened? Was it storage? Was it fishing and cooking? Nope. It was Guild Houses. They are fine, they are nice, they are what many people asked for and yet not everyone will have access to it and the way you're doing the pricing is scaring us. You auction. You don't do it like you have your head inside the settings - how would a farming guild, who's members get 250 trias a month (imagine that means 50 trias a month for the guild, you'd need 20000 members to make 1M trias a month, or with, let's say a more... earthly number, 200 members, that means 100 months until the guild has enough money), buy a guild house? Meaning: guild houses good, thank you a lot for them but they are useless for the general public who won't be able to afford it at all.

 What was next? Armor. Nice again, pretty. What does it support? Fighters. It also supports that idea that you implement things in an order of flashyness instead of trying to balance the parts of the game. We know you'll do it, sometimes we ask ourselves how, as we're scared you'll pull something that will look like madness to us, or take a whole lot time to make something we actually want, you don't reply with something we can acknowledge, we complain. It's normal and you should read this part of the forums calmly, breathing slowly and remembering that lack of intelligence is everywhere. Some in the dev team may be lacking in skills required to talk with people, but remember that a lot of us do. We're stupid, unsocial, whinny, insistent and all the bad things that exist, because we're a lot of people, that's a lot of flaws put together and a lot for you to take. If you're going to deal with us you need tolerance and sympathy. If not, use some middlemen like moderators, they're supposed to know how to deal with after all.

 I, myself, can wait for the storage, can wait for more crafting skills, can wait for a better economy. I've waited for four years and I hope that life will let me keep waiting. We all love you (well, not all, remember all the flaws we have? It's realistic some of us don't love you). That we complain like Donari did is only a show that we love this game and we care about it. We don't want it to be like Runescape, or any game where people just pointlessly level up: we want to make this the best game we can and sometimes we're only trying to see if our means to reach it are the same, or try to change yours because they look senseless to us. So take us for what we are and relax, we're not trying to bring you down (again: not all of us, but the part that matters. You're still supposed to treat us good, to quote the most perfect man in the world: "If someone hits you, turn the other cheek.") just trying to bring the game up.

 Final note: It's normal for the PLs and RPs to hate each other. When you have two groups and "limited" resources, tensions rise, that's basic Psychology. In the end, this game should end with Powerlevelers, not by kicking them out, but by creating a system that blocks it (only letting people have a few specializations, stat caps for each race, etc.) and therefore creates something that will give us true RP immersion. We don't want to be players in-game, we want to be characters. It'll take it's time, I'll be waiting, as I believe it is possible and that you can do it. *puts two cents in the box* Thanks.

"I had a dream of a Golden Darkness."
Guild Leader of The Imperial Trades.
Hail the Dark Empire

Cebot

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 161
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2007, 07:51:33 am »
Sorry, I hadn't mined in quite a while. Haven't noticed that the old gold mine has turned into a coal mine.
So why do I love when I still feel pain?
When does it end, when is my work done?
Why do I fight and why do I feel that
I carry a sword, that I carry a sword through a battlefield?

VNV Nation - Joy

bilbous

  • Guest
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2007, 10:54:54 am »
I do not understand how people think restricting skills and levels will prevent power leveling. It will just mean that these players will max out their character within the new system all the quicker and move on to the next character, maxing it in perhaps a different manner. So instead of having one character maxed out in all skills and stats they will have five maxed out, maybe differently or maybe the same, depending on how much variety they like.

People who like nothing more than skill/stat advancement will advance regardless of the end result. It may even serve to encourage them as their goal will be that much easier to accomplish.

Draklar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4422
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2007, 11:14:49 am »
Meh.
It's extremely easy to eliminate powerleveling. Probably less easy if you believe the way MMORPGs handle things is the only was these things can be handled.
AKA Skald

Waylander

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1562
  • Constantly correct since 1988
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2007, 11:18:39 am »
Limit the amount of Exp per day to something that doesn't take long to get.

Have increases in one skill cause decreases in another.

Limit the amount of training NPCs give out in a day.

There are quite a few ways.
<Jeraphon>oh khado
<Jeraphon>you so khrazy

Xil|sleeps: I love cadoras

Waylander, A.K.A: Cadoras, Khado, Nurahk, Armeen, Nostra ... God.

Draklar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4422
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2007, 11:32:56 am »
Though none of this prevents powerleveling.
AKA Skald

Waylander

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1562
  • Constantly correct since 1988
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2007, 11:35:04 am »
Of course it does.  It just does not prevent bank cushioning.  If you can only level so much for day you can't really powerlevel.
<Jeraphon>oh khado
<Jeraphon>you so khrazy

Xil|sleeps: I love cadoras

Waylander, A.K.A: Cadoras, Khado, Nurahk, Armeen, Nostra ... God.

bilbous

  • Guest
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2007, 11:41:43 am »
In other words cripple the game to punish people who actually enjoy playing it to favor those who would rather just pretend?

Some specific rejoinders:
Quote
Limit the amount of Exp per day to something that doesn't take long to get.
I suppose you would regulate that based on character levels but wait a character might have 50 in sword and armor and little else how much would be a good amount for this character? 2400 xp would be one monster for him. If I have 10 hours to play a day and stop getting xp after 5 minutes what do I do with the other 9 hours and 55 minutes? attempt to blow bubbles out of my butt?

Quote
Have increases in one skill cause decreases in another.
Hmm most skills start at 0 what would be the effect of negative skill numbers? If I train magic and my weapons go below 0 doe it mean I cannot even equip a weapon?

Quote
Limit the amount of training NPCs give out in a day.
This one might be a little more reasonable but how much is enough? If I want to put long hours into advancing my character why should I be limited to what someone who plays much less can earn? By the way are you talking game days or real days because game days are fairly quick so it would not be much of a restriction except at relatively low levels.

Quote
It's extremely easy to eliminate powerleveling.
well if you are going to do that I hope you would never rp a character with stats greater than what the database thinks you have, that to me is the most egregious type of power-levelling around. "Look at me I'm so powerful I don't even need to train at all to wipe you out!"

Draklar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4422
    • View Profile
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2007, 11:45:29 am »
1) it's a nice encouragement for character trading. Simply play several characters at once and trade them to other players once they have pretty damn high level. The demand would surely increase. The question is whether demand would trigger trading. Largely depends on success of the game.
2) In case of Planeshift look at differences between how much experience is gained by lower level and higher level characters.

Quote
It's extremely easy to eliminate powerleveling.
well if you are going to do that I hope you would never rp a character with stats greater than what the database thinks you have, that to me is the most egregious type of power-levelling around. "Look at me I'm so powerful I don't even need to train at all to wipe you out!"
Powerleveling is all about using game mechanics. If it doesn't deal with game mechanics, then it isn't powerleveling. God-modding is a seperate issue.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 11:51:17 am by Draklar »
AKA Skald

bilbous

  • Guest
Re: Roleplay vs. powerlevelling
« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2007, 11:50:56 am »
Umm, what?

1. hmm pretty sure it is against the terms of service to trade characters. I could be wrong though.

2. I do not understand what this specifically refers to, I suppose regulating character levels (which do not really exist--there are only skill and stat levels.)