Criticism: Me and my big mouth.

[Marqsaynt]

I think maybe the critiques would be most effective if they were, in general, focused on helping new(er) guilds that are trying to find their way.

I don't agree. I think every guild should be criticized for as long as people can come up with stuff to point at. I expect that same treatment on my own threads, because I want my guilds to improve, not to be stopped in time while people continuously and secretly laugh at the flaws they find. *paranoid*
Besides, I think I've hit all the new guilds already.

I actually agree with you, just don't be surprised if more established guilds are much, much more resistant to criticism (constructive or otherwise) than some guilds just starting up. Was more of a "pearls before swine" thought, as in why bother? But, since you've already burned through all the newer guilds, knock yourself out and enjoy (everyone needs a hobby ). Just don't be too surprised if your critiques receive a tepid reception.

I will not tolerate further sympathy. No. Not on my watch.

Hey I personally thought it was funny this time around! Helps knowing the context. Plus, I know you aren't a moderator on this particular section of the PS forums so, it couldn't be anything but a comical comment. *hint hint* (Call it one of the drawbacks of having power. ) Anyway, glad you aren't giving up on the jokes, the forums, and the world in general, would be a pretty boring place if everyone was always serious about everything.

Concluding: foreplay, then the real thing. I get it, I get it. Oh, and no jokes.

And cuddling afterwards? ...Wait, what are we talking about again? Depending on the situation the jokes could either be a good idea or a really really bad one. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[Sangwa]

Just don't be too surprised if your critiques receive a tepid reception.

I should point out that this kind of stuff has happened over and over again. I'm not surprised by any specific situation, I'm just a bit tired of having to go through it everytime. I enjoy discussing, but it gets less entertaining when it becomes repetitive: Critic, Angry-Reply, Softer Critic, Still-Angry Reply.

Plus, I know you aren't a moderator on this particular section of the PS forums so, it couldn't be anything but a comical comment. *hint hint*

I felt the sentence in question was very absurd and for that reason impossible to be taken seriously. Within my post it seemed the most unlikely thing to annoy people...
The comment after it was the serious part. Why would people take the joke as my moderating action rather than taking what I wrote right after? I don't really agree that the joke was out of place. In fact, it was supposed to be the kind introduction to my post. Playful, then serious. Introduction, then comment.
It seems like it was a bad joke in that context though (because few got it). But a joke there was certainly not out of place.

And cuddling afterwards? ...Wait, what are we talking about again? Depending on the situation the jokes could either be a good idea or a really really bad one

What do you mean? I don't get it. Am I not supposed to be friendly first then get to the real part of the critique? You're confusing.
*winks discretly*

[Phinehas]

Plus, I know you aren't a moderator on this particular section of the PS forums so, it couldn't be anything but a comical comment. *hint hint*

I felt the sentence in question was very absurd and for that reason impossible to be taken seriously. Within my post it seemed the most unlikely thing to annoy people...
The comment after it was the serious part. Why would people take the joke as my moderating action rather than taking what I wrote right after? I don't really agree that the joke was out of place. In fact, it was supposed to be the kind introduction to my post. Playful, then serious. Introduction, then comment.
It seems like it was a bad joke in that context though (because few got it). But a joke there was certainly not out of place.

That's just it... I've come to the conclusion that there are so many shallow superficial people out there who would actually say directly insulting or downright ridiculous things, that they don't see it as absurd. For instance, I know Sangwa and given what I know of him, and how I perceive the world based on who I am, I wouldn't have taken that joke as anything but hilarious. Apparently, however, there are people out there who would actually say something like that, and so assume that Sangwa would, too. So basically, Sangwa, it becomes your fault that other people are immature.

[Marqsaynt]

Apparently, however, there are people out there who would actually say something like that, and so assume that Sangwa would, too. So basically, Sangwa, it becomes your fault that other people are immature.

So that's whose fault it is!

Anyway, thanks Sangwa for making me realize the blissful life of someone that's not a moderator. I'll gladly leave board politics and all the little things a mod needs to worry about to an expert politician of the Empire.

[Waterman]

Suffice it to say that Sangwa isn't the reason for my sig.

[bilbous]

I won't tolerate further sympathy and kindness. No. Not on my watch.

Is this what the thread is all about, primarily? In a forum you do not moderate and have no ability to administer: not a big deal. In a forum you do have moderation responsibilities it is unwise to make any joke with respect to how you may use the powers associated with the responsibilities. It may seem funny to you and those who know it cannot be true but that will not include all users. Even if you have the best moderation ability possible it is always a subjective task and sometimes people will disagree with your decision. It does not help if there is a perception that you are easier on some than others although that is unavoidable.

Users must be able to trust the people charged with moderation and any jokes about abuse of those powers diminishes that trust.

[Phinehas]

* Phinehas laughs at Bilbous and everyone else who has no sense of humor, or believes that having authority means that one cannot make jokes about how one will wield it.

Again, just because other people project their immaturity onto Sangwa and assume that he's such a complete doofus as to actually mean something like that, doesn't mean he has to tiptoe around from now. I'm not saying go  around randomly threatening people for the fun of it, but there's no harm in a joke once in a while... especially when you have an impeccable and lengthy reputation for fairness to back it up.

[bilbous]

Laugh all you want, I do not need to project any immaturity on you, you display it in spades. Maturity means taking your responsibilities seriously. People get strange sometimes when they have undue stress and do unlikely things.
The more you joke about abusing your powers the easier it is to actually do so at a time when your judgment is impaired for whatever reason because "hey! I warned them!"

Let me be clear. I am not suggesting that I expect this to happen to Sangwa but if at some point down the line, he is having problems making the mortgage and car payments, his wife is taking him to the cleaners in the divorce, his cat just shredded the paper copy of the big presentation he is expected to give this morning to the president of the company, the only other copy in on that hard drive that just died and some ingrate on the stupid forum just ragged on him unjustly he might just say to hell with this and delete the whole forum he is responsible for. God forbid any of this happening.

But hey it is a joke, right? so laugh it up, Phinehas!

Scorching mind, my eye! Fever dream is more like it. Make like Jack Handey and repeat your sig into a mirror daily.

[Phinehas]

Aww... did someone get upset?

Now see, here we go... You get upset and resort to personal attacks, and so that means Sangwa will, too. You seem to rather prove my point than otherwise.

[Sen]

Independant from if that's true I must say that bilbous has a better point than you in my eyes.
I wanted to write more earlier in this thread but it's hard to explain, so just so much: Think on the fact that it will be humans that read your posts, they do have feelings and you shouldn't just ignore what your words can cause.
Well, others, started with Leama and hitancrias wrote already about how I think about it.

[Phinehas]

I'm not saying throw all caution to the wind. I'm just saying that in my opinion posters get blamed for everything, but the people who over-exaggerate offenses or choose to read offense into an ambiguous statement are rarely held accountable for it. For the record, I'm not defending myself here, I'm defending Sangwa. I have yet to ever see Sangwa say anything that could not, with very little effort, be taken in the way he meant it. And I have never seen Sangwa mean something to be insulting or offensive.

Of course, very few people will ever listen to me, because today life is about, "let's all just get along" and political correctness, and politics, and don't tread on anyone's toes, and nobody really cares about whether a point is valid or not, as long as nobody's feelings are hurt. *shrug*

What makes me laugh is that the people I seriously respect from this community are mostly on the side of "it wouldn't hurt if people's skin was a little thicker", or at least take a middle ground, whereas the people who have not earned my respect in any particular way are the people who take the "how dare you, you big meanie" side.

[Zan]

Authority brings responcibility, like a chain that clusters you to ponder and overponder every word you say and every action you take ... for it just might so happen to be that that word ends up in the wrong ear or that action results in the wrong toes being stepped on. A leader should be a slave to the ones he leads.

... I've heard that opinion before on these forums and just like I did then I'll completely disagree now.

Just because you got upset by something a person higher up the chain has done doesn't mean that you can blame it all on them. Yet still a lot of people do it that way. "He's my boss, I expect him to be better than me so this is all his fault! Not mine!" People make mistakes, they have to make mistakes in order to become better people. So demanding that someone in charge avoids all chance of making a mistake with someone is forcing them to stop growing and improving. It's simply counterproductive.

Bilbous, your expectations are the main reason why leadership is elevated to such a counterproductive superhuman status if you ask me. While most good people would never want to take up such a status. I know Sangwa doesn't, he never has ... so why would you want to force him into it and make things less pleasant for both Sangwa and the rest of us?

[zorbels]

Suffice it to say that Sangwa isn't the reason for my sig.

Well thanks for letting us all know with spamming this thread. We will all sleep better now knowing where you have gone. *coughs*

@phinehas: I am not completely sure but I think that your misreading Bibous. I don't read him as upset. As for the "people can have thicker skin" bit, well I partly agree but I also partly disagree. Just because you have a tough interior doesn't mean that everyone else will. There are people who are sensitive. There isn't anything wrong with that. With the way you talk about it though you make it out to be like it is a bad thing. Why? I will never understand that.  (Perhaps I misunderstand?)

@Everyone: I know one thing though. When having authority over people of all ages it can be hard to moderate. It takes a good mod to know his people on the forums and act accordingly not just to the rules of the forums but to have some what of an idea of the posters personalitiy and word criticism in a way that they will understand. So if someone shows that they can take criticism then you don't have to watch so much how you word something. If you know the poster is relatively sensitive then a good moderater will take the time to word the post in such a way that it can't be taken with to much offense. I think Sangwa is a good moderator. I believe he considers other peoples feelings and not just his own.

[bilbous]

So what you are saying is like Ol' Georgie W. B. should be able to joke "hey Iran, Do not listen to what we talkin 'bout, I'm jus' itchin to push this l'il red button and wipe you from the earth! Yo' Canada! Gimme yer wood. I got this here button!  Hoooeee Russia wanna play roulette with these here nukes?" Sure it is all fun and games until the cowpie lands on your head.

Oh and those who go about crafting the perfect ambiguous statement have a great career ahead of them in advertising, politics or the law. 

How can you be defending Sangwa from an attack I did not make on him? I just laid it out the way that it is.

And by the way your derisive laughter was the first personal attack in the exchange so you sow what you reap.

Anyway, I do not really care about this but he asked for opinions and I gave him my seasoned perspective. If it is not to your taste maybe it will be once it has aged a bit.

[Waterman]

Well thanks for letting us all know with spamming this thread. We will all sleep better now knowing where you have gone. *coughs*

What the hell is wrong with you?  My post was meant as a way to support Sangwa's thread because he makes a really good point and anything else I would say would just be redundant, and you still take issue with it.

So what you are saying is like Ol' Georgie W. B. should be able to joke "hey Iran, Do not listen to what we talkin 'bout, I'm jus' itchin to push this l'il red button and wipe you from the earth! Yo' Canada! Gimme yer wood. I got this here button!  Hoooeee Russia wanna play roulette with these here nukes?" Sure it is all fun and games until the cowpie lands on your head.

Way to completely overexaggerate the issue  A forum moderator for a MMORPG game CAN NOT be compared to the President of the USA.   I mean, come on...