RP fights vs. game mechanics

[Suno_Regin]

It seems like going out of the settings (with the right justifications of course) is a lot more fun than following the settings. Hydlaa is a medieval town that apparently has a ridiculous amount of guards, where people walk around and talk about some of the most boring topics at times. Evil characters and "godmoders" as Meredee calls them, people who are going out of the settings, add a much more fun and exciting aspect to the game.

Besides, it's still alpha isn't it? What's the worry? When settings expands a lot more and things are concrete, that's when things like this should be stressed.

[Phinehas]

I agree with Zan on this... Although in my mind going "out of settings" too far can become "against settings". Making up a new glyph is out of settings, making up a new city is out of settings to the point of almost going against the settings.

Also, I see Quq's point. However, it seems to me that those are mostly the immature RPers. I've engaged in many much more commonplace RP storylines in my time here.

[Anumesa]

Honestly, i am quite sick of RP fighting at the moment. I actually do support the idea that if you train your character, you should be able to portray yourself as more powerful, and therefore have a slight advantage in an RP fight. Im not saying that everyone who RPs an untrained character as super-powerful, is wrong and that they cant be a great RPer, its just that i have encountered so much BS lately, its been driving me nuts.

That said, i DO prefer to use rolls when RP fighting (if at all). Yes, it is random. But the alternative, is far too annoying, and gets way out of control. In the times that i have RP fought like that, it has resulted in godmodding, invincible barmaids, and a whole mess of irritating situations i do not wish to repeat. I think to be a good RP fighter, you have to be willing to let your character fail. If you go into every fight not willing to lose, to get seriously injured or killed, then that is completely unrealistic. In real life you wouldnt pick a fight with a fully armored person (ok or person with a gun/weapon then  ) if you didnt plan on getting hurt at all. If you dont want your character to die, running away is always an option, and in fact i have had my character do that.

Lately i have been trying actual dueling with several friends, and i find it a lot more fun then trying to outstab someone who is determined that their character is invincible.

In a perfect world, rolls wouldnt be necessary because everyone would be mature to RP the fight in a fair fashion. At the moment i dont see this as possible.

[Quq Leque]

Evil characters and "godmoders" as Meredee calls them, people who are going out of the settings, add a much more fun and exciting aspect to the game.

Why don't I see her saying that then? Is it just you seeing that? Nothing wrong with evil characters, just as long as RP isn't forced upon you, like in the example meredee uses

[Suno_Regin]

It isn't in this actual post, but it's the discussion we had leading up to her posting this. When I feel like digging through the log I'll post it here.

Edit: In the example, that was a bullcrap way of doing it. However, if you're being randomly attacked, you shouldn't really have a choice and say "I don't want to be attacked today, maybe later."

It was an immature roleplayer, but in cases like that the only problem was not adding "tries to" in the action.

[Huget]

RP fights can be far more descriptive, and thus entertaining, than duels. As long as your opponent is mature enough to understand they can lose, RP fights are the best things about RPing, and since RPing is the best part of PS...

[Lirreka]

Quite self explanatory...

[Mordraugion]

Personally I am a lover of RP fighting sans dice but as mentioned before it does take a certain maturity to be able to accurately and honestly assess the damage given and taken.
Some reading for those willing to try proper RP fighting.

http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=19339.msg212536#msg212536
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26809.msg302810#msg302810

[bilbous]

This is a very old argument that keeps cropping up. The same old suspects posting the same old viewpoints with random newcomers lining up on every side. I said it before I'll say it again.  If you want to play whatever you like then make the skill/stats user adjustable. Create a system so that when something is increased something else is decreased so that nobody can be maxed out in everything and then do away with training altogether. I get along fine without PVP either real or imaginary. Of course I also do not play much anymore either. That is kind of sad considering how much time I spend on the forum.

[Velh Krome]

It seems like going out of the settings (with the right justifications of course) is a lot more fun than following the settings. Hydlaa is a medieval town that apparently has a ridiculous amount of guards, where people walk around and talk about some of the most boring topics at times. Evil characters and "godmoders" as Meredee calls them, people who are going out of the settings, add a much more fun and exciting aspect to the game.

Besides, it's still alpha isn't it? What's the worry? When settings expands a lot more and things are concrete, that's when things like this should be stressed.

And who's it to justify the "right way"? Phinehas indeed is right saying it's a dangerous thing, and can turn into as well justified complaints about "godmodding".
The alpha-thingie.. devs once told us we will always have to be prepared for changing our chars history in case of extensions. Thats quite understandable for me, but adding stuff to the setting wildly, claiming sooner or later it will be added anyway appears quite a bit off to me.

[Duraza]

In response to the general ideas of things that go out of the settings (such as makin up new glyphs, powers, etc) I'll say what I said before. Any power you make should have an equal consequence. If I have a sword that can slay someone in one slash because of some kind of magic spell then that sword should have a consequence like killing me as well. If I have a glyph, depending on what it does, it could simply cost me mana or it could drain away strength. You want to create a new power then create a negative consequence to go along with it till that power is represented in the game.

Now there is something that I think of when I rp fight (that Anumesa kind of touched on) and thats what seperates who is a good rper and who is a bad rper in my mind. While your character may have every IC intention to win a fight you must keep IC wantings and OOC wantings seperately. Many people get attached and don't want their character to lose OOCly. ICly not wanting to lose is fine but OOCly you must go into a fight prepared to lose. Just always saying "/me tries to stab you with a dagger" isn't good enough for you to claim to not be a god modder. You must be willing to get hit by a dagger when its your opponents turn. You must note your limits because you can't get hit everytime and keep going, its still god modding. In the end its the person who losses every match that I would rather rp with than the person who has defeated everyone he/she has gone agaisnt.

Oh and one last note for all those who still think "oh well I don't do any of that stuff he said so I'm not a god modder." One of the biggest causes of god modding that I see is when players try to force death on another player. I mean obviously when it comes to some things, like a new evil enslaving your friends, you ICly want them dead. However take that other player into consideration. Its not easy for someone to let themselves lose every fight. A lot of players I know who take that path usually get sick of it quickly because if they try to hard to win they lose (because god mod accusations) and if they don't try hard enough they lose. Its not easy to be the person everyone wants to kill and it can be really fustrating when you spend time trying to do something only to end up losing because everyone expects you to die.

[Phinehas]

I would still say, Duraza, that just having a weakness doesn't justify giving yourself enormous power. If somebody showed up and RPed a character as powerful(though well-balanced) as my character, Phinehas... I'd be ticked off... I think there has to be a little more to accumulating power than just being able to write a backstory.

[Duraza]

I would still say, Duraza, that just having a weakness doesn't justify giving yourself enormous power. If somebody showed up and RPed a character as powerful(though well-balanced) as my character, Phinehas... I'd be ticked off... I think there has to be a little more to accumulating power than just being able to write a backstory.

Yeah I know. However, people are going to rp having great powers no matter what and there really isn't any way you can stop that. I rather have people make themselves also have weaknesses then just letting them run around as all powerful gods. 

[Marqsaynt]

RP fighting is one of those things that has the potential to be really awesome but, too often ends up lame, boring, and pretty pointless. In my opinion there are a few requirements that need to be met if an RP duel is even going to have a chance of turning out well.

1. A well developed character.

If a person does not know their character well enough to honestly know their limitations, then I don't see how they could duel in any manner that is realistic.

2. The maturity to actually stick with a character's limitations.

For many people, I think the temptation to suddenly RP some new found power/ability in order to avoid being defeated is too much to resist.

3. No Dice.

It just clutters things up, robs the fight of aesthetics, and in my opinion isn't necessary as long as a person meets requirements 1 and 2.


Another thought I have about RP duels is that people should at least try to make it "artistically fought" (well written). Too often I seem to see duels that go something like this:

---
*Stabby Bob lunges forward with moderate power.*

[roll dice]

*Al Battle-Axe is stabbed 3 centimeters in the left shoulder.*

*Al Battle-Axe's swings his axe in a 3 foot arc at Bob's knees.*

[roll dice]

*Stabby Bob receives a shallow slice on his right knee-cap*

and so on... and so on... and so on...
---

Yawn... It's about as fun as watching an old computer game "fight" against itself. This may just be personal preference but, if you are going to essentially free-style write a collaborative battle story, at least try to use the written word to it's fullest and make it interesting.

Also, I agree with people who have mentioned that it's pretty bad forum to RP a powerful character simply based on a backstory. Reputations (and often powers) are something that need to be earned through RP; any other way is just a bad shortcut.

For the record, I'm largely with Meredee and Anumesa on this one, though I don't think I am necessarily sick of RP duels... just tired of seeing bad ones. 


P.S.

Not that I get why this was brought up in the first place but, I am fairly certain that Water Glyphs do actually exist in game. Pretty sure I heard they were given out in a GM event which, would obviously make them part of the game settings.

[Phinehas]

* Phinehas looks around briefly and yanks Marqsaynt over to stand next to him.

He's with us.