[Guild] The Hydlaa Arena

[Velh Krome]

I really do hope you can manage to bring some life to that "dead" place, Donari, nice work!
To have Greg your guild-leader I actually consider an interesting feature! I for one wouldnt expect you to act in a way one would want (reasonably..) to complain about godmodding.

Good luck with it!

Oh, and if one of my chars should intent to enter the arena, I hope he will have enough trias in his coinpurse;)

[Marqsaynt]

2.1 Fees
The Arena will charge 20 tria entrance fee, except of those that can prove they are doing business with the Arena staff. Multiple entry passes may be purchased. Furthermore, fighters pay 50 tria in order to provide healing for gladiators, to keep the beast stock constant and to refurnish the gladiators with new equipment. During events, except the Beast Hunt, the participants pay 30 tria registration fee, being excluded from the entrance fee. Spectators pay the usual entrance fee.
Naturally, roleplayed money will be accepted.

One of the oldest RPs I know of that thug/thief/etc. type characters or guilds have used is the road block RP where a person is "shaken down" for a fee in exchange for passage... While not the intent, this honestly has the same highway robbery feel to me. This feel stems not from the fact that you're offering a service but, that you're charging people to use what I assume at least are public lands. Basically, if the Arena is some sort of public good, supplied by the Octarchy and managed with taxes... this small fee is actually extortion.

2.3 Gladiators and ranking system:
The Hydlaa Arena hires skilled fighters and trains them in combat. These skilled fighters are ranked according to their strength. Any challenger can challenge a gladiator in a specific discipline, providing the staff deems the challenger equal or weaker then the gladiator.

I hope you are talking about "real" characters and not just NPCs. Supplying actual professional fighter player characters for the purpose of training I could actually see as a justifiable means of charging "fees" and I think would encourage RP between people that otherwise may never interact. One other thing that rubs me a bit the wrong way is the "providing the staff deems the challenger equal or weaker then the gladiator" policy, it seems needlessly controlling and not in the nature of the Arena... If a person is dumb enough to get themselves killed I don't exactly see why it is your job to stop them.

2.3 Rules of conduct:
Every participant needs to apply for a gladiator or an animal. Violating this application process will mean possible exclusion from the Arena for a period of time. Those that do not accept the existance of this guild do not have any right to claim a NPC in face of the fighters in front of the Arena staff. If someone that accepts the guild fights against a gladiator and someone else that accepts the guild wants to fight the same one, it'll be handled by the Arena staff. If someone that does not accept the guild fights an NPC, those involved need to handle it by themselves.

This is just asking for trouble... I am really not looking forward to the day when some overzealous junior member of your guild decides they have the RP-given right to start evicting people from NPCs. Also, how is it decided who fights which NPC? First come first serve? Whoever pays the most for the best? For how long can a person stay there? And doesn't this just encourage the same OOC camping?

3.1 Staff members:
Furthermore, the Arena needs several animal trainers that see to the wellbeing and supply of animals. Various clerks are required to keep the finances in order and to handle the assignment of fighters, to charge the fees and to enlist participants for events.
Staff members will receive free training, equipment and free repair ICly (As far as the income allows it).

3.2 Jobs&Quests:
The Hydlaa Arena offers several jobs and quests to non staff members, like provision of food and drink to spectators, the repair of damaged equipment or the crafting of latter. Furthermore, various small quests that can be assigned by staff members will be included.

This is the part of the guild that I see as having the most promise... Basically I would suggest avoiding RPing the will of Gregori and the actual management of the Arena and focus on enhancing the atmosphere of the area by offering services that no one else is offering. I for one would have no problem paying for creative services that from a logistical standpoint are difficult for an NPC to offer, i.e. tournaments, training partners, weapon repair, healing, etc.

Regardless of any reservations I have about this idea, I still am curious to see how it all turns out in the end. Thumbs up for at least trying something different.  

[Phinehas]

* Phinehas yanks Marqsaynt over to his side.

He's with me.

Thanks Marqsaynt, you put your finger on the issues that I couldn't quite seem to get out the way I wanted.

[Zan]

I'd like to counter a few of those arguments ...

2.1: Are we paying taxes already? Not by my knowledge so how can paying for using facilities be seen as extortion? Honestly, not having to pay for those things was unrealistic. Which gladiator risks their lives for nothing? I have to say that I find your opinion to be based on OOC knowlegde, mainly the knowledge that this is a player initiative and not settings endorsed. To my characters it makes perfect sense that I have to pay for entertainment and use of governement facilities. Our reward is that we can keep the defeated gladiator's goods .. theirs is their pay.

2.3: I think you misread, the Arena Staff wants to arrange fair fights. This means they won't pitch anyone up against a challenge that will easily be defeated, with no risk for losing yourself. One different issue I see with this is that we players can't kill gladiators (they respawn = recover) but gladiators do kill us.

[Marqsaynt]

2.1: Are we paying taxes already? Not by my knowledge so how can paying for using facilities be seen as extortion? Honestly, not having to pay for those things was unrealistic. Which gladiator risks their lives for nothing? I have to say that I find your opinion to be based on OOC knowlegde, mainly the knowledge that this is a player initiative and not settings endorsed. To my characters it makes perfect sense that I have to pay for entertainment and use of governement facilities. Our reward is that we can keep the defeated gladiator's goods .. theirs is their pay.

Taxes are already part of the settings. They are mentioned in the laws and in spite of whether a system is coded yet that allows for taxes to be "really" collected, to ignore them is just as bad as RPing that criminals can freely roam, pillage, and murder since the guards can't "really" do anything... heck, by that logic why not just ignore every law written down since there isn't any way to enforce them?

[Zan]

I don't ignore taxes .. I see this guild as the first implementation of them. As far as my characters know the money they pay to the Hydlaa Arena goes to said arena. In other words it goes to the government because they own the arena. I'm ignoring that it really goes towards players who take the function of a government endorsed program, that is OOC information.

In all the years that I've been with this game there was always an idea that players could not possibly take part in any official government manner, this had to be left to the settings and GMs. I never agreed with this because I never heard a good reason why they couldn't.

Personally, unless settings says this project is a no-go, through the government .. I consider the guild in their full right to collect entrance fees and what-not. Of course not a lot of players will pay them but that's another matter.

[Donari Tyndale]

First of all concerning the fees. If the Arena would be managed by taxes, you wouldn't be allowed to loot anything, and that's just pretending you did not kill your opponent. You loot things, keep the money for yourself. You kill animals, which are quite expensive to replace. The amount of swords looted in the Arena each day exceeds the smiting capacities of all the smiths in the vicinity of Hydlaa. If the Arena would be financed by taxes, the Octarchy wouldn't have much money left. Later, we'll also have season passes. We don't know hot to do them yet, as there's no time in PS.

Concerning the gladiators, of course they'll be mostly players. I detest NPCs. Gladiators are the Arena's capital. If you'd just let them be severely wounded by a person significantly stronger then them, soon, the Arena would be a large hospital.

The NPC assignment thing is just something I came up with, as it is how the Arena would be managed realistically. After all you wouldn't move through an Arena drawing your swords on any gladiator and beast you'd cross. You'd actually ask those that supply the gladiators/beasts wether they can spare them. As the Arena is primarily focussed on fighting, and not earning money, I'd say whoever comes first gets it. However, it'll be difficult to realize. And next, I did not say we'd evict anyone. We'll only assign NPCs "unoccupied" by persons. However we're still a good distance away from implementing that, the assignment of NPCs.

The guild will always be officially led by Gregori.

[Sen]

I love the idea. 

* Sen readies to pay the entry fees

Sen

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

To me as long as the guild is giving something tangible to the community other than promises it seems like a fair concept.

Be very wary that the actions of those collecting fees is not construed as harassment.

If someone tells you to back off IC or OOC immediately do so to avoid any troubles.

This is also not much different than someone camping out in the church claiming to be a priest (not that I would know anything about that.)

It is always a very delicate thing when players try to roleplay elements of the government I hope the guild will be very mature in how it handles community reaction and that it will fulfill its promises.

[Shambla]

I stand with Marqsaynt in my apprehensions.

Personally, it sounds to me like an attempt to monopolize the arena and its Kills for them selves. If I chose to play NPCs in the arena, and they try to tell me I have no right to do so and I must give up what I am playing, I will not. I will play as I chose with out being required to pay a fee. As far as I am concerned the rules of the land apply to the arena also and those are the rules I will play there by. I will not relinquish what I am playing because someone tells me they paid a ridicules fee to buy that NPC. NPCs can not be owned by player, guild or event.

I see this as a major problem. I have posted this in the Paladins forum for feedback but can be rather sure it will not be accepted easily.

As I said before. If I chose to fight there, and I have control of a fight, I will retain it regardless of claims that "I paid for this NPC, it is mine."

- Master At Arms, Shambla. Guild Master of the Guild, Paladins -

[Zan]

Shambla, you should read the posts properly before you side against something. Nobody mentioned anything about taking NPCs away from other players.

We'll only assign NPCs "unoccupied" by persons.

If someone that does not accept the guild fights an NPC, those involved need to handle it by themselves.

This guild is not about hogging all NPCs, it is about providing services to the players for a small fee. Events, delegating free NPC as well as player gladiators, giving quests, handing out extra services like healing and repairing of equipment, etc.

The only people that would have to worry about anything are the ones that run up to occupied NPCs and take them away because they have faster weapons or can spam the attack button quicker. If you're one of those, then shame on you!

[Donari Tyndale]

Don't see the NPC assignment as compulsory, see it as optional for hardcore roleplayers.

[Marqsaynt]

Xillix, I agree with like 90% of what you said. However, I do see a slight but pretty important difference between this RP and something like RPing a bartender at Kada's (or a Laanx priest ).

This idea of charging "fees" to enter the arena is just like if someone decided to RP they are the new management at the Kada El tavern, still answerable to the "vacationing" Kada but, getting sent orders from abroad to carry out her will... and this week, her will is that Kada El's needs to charge a cover to get through the door (50 tria, or half price if you're an attractive female ). They throw together a guild, hire a large Kran as the bouncer... and get to work "running" Kada's, although they aren't -really- the ones running it... Kada owns it, they're just doing what she wants... Have a problem with it? Take it up with Gregori Kada. See any problems with accountability yet?

Obviously this type of RP is different than someone that just RPs being a part time bartender, that sells drinks, and works basically for tips (or in the case of a priest RP, donations). A bartender character isn't trying to take over an area, just enhance the atmosphere.

[Donari Tyndale]

If you are unwilling to roleplay with this guild, then feel free to ignore it. We aren't trying to take over anything. Do you know how much money 20 tria per person entering the Arena are? If I mined with a single char I'd earn more in an hour then I did per day collecting entrance fees. All the money goes to events. We already did two, and the money is draining. Also keep in mind that I spent 20k tria creating the guild, and if I was set upon getting any money back, I'd probably spend the rest of my life standing in front of the Arena.

[Phinehas]

He's not questioning your motives in collecting the money, Donari. He's questioning the validity of it in an RP sense. Surely you knew this discussion would come up when you created the guild?