Roleplaying decreased?

[Under the moon]

That is a bug, Mythryndel.

[Mythryndel]

I know... I was attempting to be humorous... sorry that i failed in my attempt.

[Miaua]

PS claims to be RP game...

I think some RP encouragement should be more of the concern. Way more. Rigth now it feels like its getting different way.
For example making quests aviable even for groups, so players will have to interact between eachother (right now impossible and questing is singleplayer stuff)
Or less importance of trias (less bot-like silent players in mines)

But as game develops, there is more and more stuff which you can learn and train, that RP will be slowly killed in time, unless there will be any good idea from devs how to prevent it. Honestly, no idea on my mind. But its moving in way as any other MMO game. WoW, Lineage, Silkroad.

Leveling, as it becoming aviable, is taking over RP. And with systems as introductions.. its getting even faster. Before, when someone 'abused' your name, you accused him from spying, or anything like that that he knows name without you telling him. Nice, random RP, which teached newbies how to use IC. Now its just button and poof, everyone is considered introduced (typing sentences will become void, cause system message do it for you).

And thats just an example. Emotions are similar. Everyone just types "/happy" and instead of emoting by himself, each in orginal way. Soon, all will just cast one system message and end.

Thats kinda my point. PS should try to go in different way then other RPGs... otherwise, it turns in powerleveling ooc game as any other MMO. And I, as well as many from this comunity wouldnt like this, I'm sure.

Thanks for reading.
..and feel free to discuss, if you feel I'm wrong in my point. Maybe I am, who knows.

[Noriin]

I agree with the emotes thing as well, I find them to be quite unpersonal and dull.
Never use one other than greeting or waving.. even though some are funny I admit!
But still having every character behave and gesture in a unique way does help the RP much.

Not to mention.. I appreciate the work the devs put into the emotes system, I just think it should be used in emergency cases.. when you are really that busy that can't afford typing a whole sentence, which shouldn't happen often anyway.

EDIT: grammar

[Karyuu]

All the emotes are going to have animations attached to them in the future. Though if having the text appear as well is bothersome, I'm sure we can make it an optional thing.

[Hersh Kooh]

I had an idea recently, and perhaps it could do for some motivation for roleplaying. I am pondering about having Hersh selling nice stuff, crafted weapons around 300 and similar, for unusually low prices.
Requirement for having a deal with Hersh would be a validly roleplayed char while fitting personal features of the same. What Hersh is about, and by that the features, everyone would be noticing soon enough when approaching.

[Nikodemus]

All the emotes are going to have animations attached to them in the future. Though if having the text appear as well is bothersome, I'm sure we can make it an optional thing.

I think it is quite important after which phrase did a character smile or sadden. If the emotes won't be displayed, most of the time you won't be exactly sure, especially that you often read messages with delays unlike to how people normally speak.

[Aiwendil]

First of all I want to say that I enjoy roleplaying a lot (and I hope others enjoy playing with me too) , but also like to do quests or some leveling  . Okay, not really leveling, more exploring what is possible with the game mechanics when you reach a specific level in a skill. But roleplaying is very important for me, without it I think the game would get very boring for me soon. There are only rare occasions in quests that make me gasping for air because I sit laughing before my screen . But I also have the feeling RP decreased lately (since about 0.4 was realised). Short after the new release I though it is because of the introduction system, which was too buggy to use it. I had to introduce to characters often again and sometimes even when I introduced the other players was still unknown for me. But that system had become much more stable lately. Now, if the issue with all those "Someones" in the chat window will be solved, I think the system will become useable . Surely the new quests distract some other players, but a quest never kept me off from a RP. And for the platinum mine....I don't think there are much more players at the platinum mine now, then at the two gold mines before. But I don't think it's a good place to start a RP, even some smalltalk when buying/selling ores seems to be too much for a lot of miners (with some nice and interresting exceptions of course ). Maybe I'm just look at the wrong places for some RP, or it's the time of year that keeps people off from playing PS...(I heard spring is a good time to go outside....but I don't know that from my own experiences ). But I guess every point mentioned in this thread has some slight impact on the situation and all together give me the feeling RP decreased a lot lately. I hope most of those issues will improve again as time goes by (or if some "features" are fixed or balanced).

Ah, and a last thought about emotions. I think some emotions are too specific to be used. For example the "/drink" emotion. I bet it will be nice with a animation, but I don't think I want to raise my mug everytime when I use it. Maybe I just want to sit silent in a corner of Kada El's and drink my beer.

[Rigwyn]

Rule #1 When a behavior is rewarded it tends to repeat.
Rule #2 When a behavior is punished it tends to change.

Currently in PS there are automatic rewards for grinding, mining, funace-jockeying, etc... but not for standing around and chit-chatting with others.
So if your serious about being rewarded, you are going to value grinding, mining, fighting... over chit-chatting and you will tend to choose
to gravitate towards these actions - even though they get boring. Why ? because of the reward.
How many people will sacrafice their game time HAMMERING ROCKS ALL DAY just to get trias ? (enough said)

You want more people to RP ? provide rewards.
You want people to stop grinding and  mining? provide punishment - blisters that last all day, permanent injuries, emphesema for the funace jockeys
Of course, the problem with punishment is that you do not know *HOW* the behavior will change - ie the user may just move to another game.

I have tried RPing but found it no different that rping on a yahoo chat chanel. Sitting in a tavern with others looking ( >> ^^ << ) at each other, nodding, pretending to
sit with talk with others about nothing is more boring than mining. (Perhaps I'm square or something). Pretending to be European by using words the Thou and Hither just feels silly ( none of me european friends talk this way either )

If you want RP to spread,   then
  * lead by example - rp , and iinviide others in ( you see some standing and watching ? include them )
  * Provide *material* rewards ( like items, tria, etc )  to those who RP, and entice others to RP.

Well, thats my two trias...
 

[Aiwendil]

About rewards - Players often offer rewards for their Roleplays. How would you get other players chasing a thief if you don't offer a reward for it . And I heard there are rewards for GM-events too (I didn't participate in a lot of GM-events yet). But this leads to another problem. Everyone wants to take part in a GM-event because he thinks he will get a great reward for it. Evil characters help a maiden in need, just because they are looking forward for the reward. I don't think this leads to good RP (but of course just my humble opinion). But if you think about increasing your skill during a roleplay as a reward, I maybe have to agree with you Rigwyn. But I really have no idea how this should work. How should a computer judge what is a good and what is a bad roleplay. For example having a Roleplay skill (but I don't have even the slightest idea what this should represent), how should you be able to advance in this skill. I don't think any solution a computer could provide would be good for this. And having GMs look at the roleplays of players would just lead to other problems. GMs can't be there all of the time and watch the roleplays of all players. And this would surely lead to complaints of players that GMs favorite other players. And there are times when not a single GM is only, so would RP in those time be meaningless?. Or you could introduce a Communication skill maybe, that increases when you talk with other players. But this wouldn't help RP at all, because PLs would just talk to each other without any Roleplay to increase that skill. But this is just my opinion, maybe someone has a great idea how rewards for roleplaying would work...

For me, it's hard to understand what other players gain by just increasing their stats and skills or earning a lot o tria. For me, the real fun of the game is the interaction with others players and as a result the unexpected situations your character gets into. I never found myself laughing when I gained a skill level. Surly it can be satisfying to know you character is now able to melt platinum or cast that specific spell, but finding myself in a compromising situation and no idea how to get out of it again is much more fun for me . And please don't get me wrong, I like the idea with rewarding RP, but I just have no idea how it could be done without introducing a lot of other problems. And I don't have any problems with Powerlevelers at all (Someone might call Aiwendil a PL too, since I invested a lot of time in her skills when I started with her). I think everyone should play this game as he wants and what gives him the most fun. It's just that I think I could have more fun if more players would do some RP

[Hersh Kooh]

I basically agree with what you said, Rigwyn. Actually thats one of the main reasons for that idea. A problem arising though is, that if you hand out rewards, you need to refill your own pouch. So you will have your rewarding rps a few times, then your bag is empty and you will need to grind or whatever yourself, for gathering rewards again.

To Aiwendil, sure, GM-rewarded events are rare, and officials to judge players rp would probably soon lead to favorism even if tried to be avoided. But why not making use of favorism yourself, you in terms of all you players? And you bet I am not talking about "player favors players" but "char favors chars".
If there are for example mage guilds: Why arent there 2-3 merchants selling to known mage scholars only? Special traders that is, with special clientele and/or special prices. If those traders are equipped nicely, a newbie-mage-oocer perhaps would try to get into roleplaying for only he, no idea, finally can buy his Wall glyph from one of them.
Or be a miner to sell cheaper to your favorite crafters..

[Aiwendil]

I like the idea of merchants selling good only to known characters. To stay in your example, if you are a mage who wants to buy a glyph, you first need to find a player who knows the merchant and can introduce you to him/her. I think this is a good way to introduce players to RP. And of course favorism between players is a good way to show new players the benefits of some roleplaying too . When a character of mine spent some time with another character in the tarvern, or both experienced and adventure together, my char will surly pay better / sell at a lower price to the other one. But I have to add some experience I made in the game lately. When I tried to buy some platinum ore lately, had some chat with the players and tried to haggle with him (I really had no intention to pay less then the usual price, I just wanted to do some conversation), two or three other players said OOC (in brackets) that I should pay the usual price or be gone. I wouldn't have a problem, if they did it IC (like at another occasion a fenki did, telling her friend not to ruin the market by selling at a lower price to me), bet those OOC reactions showed me, my roleplaying wasn't welcomed there, and my job as a melter is only to pay for their training or guild house and quietly fill their purses. So I think the only way for me to support (new) friends my character made in game by selling them more then the usual price. I don't think any new player will sell me ores for less just because we know each other if there are a lot of other players paying more. But again, I think "rewarding" other players who you know better is a good idea to get some new players to roleplay

[Hersh Kooh]

On one hand you pointed out a good point:

(..)and my job as a melter is only to pay for their training or guild house and quietly fill their purses.

Behaviour like I suggested above would prolly not be the one that leads most efficiently to a wealthy life lol. But it is either playing a merchant consequently, and contributing to the roleplaying atmosphere. Such a way of acting perhaps would only be assumed by players who already have gathered some goods/cash. I personally wouldnt mind at all if newbies arent doing that, after all though it could give them an example. What you point out is, that there are two ways of trading: The PLing one and the RPing one. Both may use the Auction channel, but only the RPing ones contribute to the atmosphere (and I am not talking about OOCers).
On the other hand I again want to say that it has nothing to do about knowing players (Aiw, you probably just used an unfitting word):

you first need to find a player who knows the merchant and can introduce you to him/her

If my personal best ooc friend ingame wouldnt have a fitting char i wouldnt sell to him, period. In the given example, have that friend play a thug, he of course wouldnt even be able to talk more than 2 sentences to my mage trader. In fact the player behind the chars in question dont matter at all - its all only about the chars, their traits and feats.
If players ask for, or say they love it when chars have special features, then make use of it, reward the efforts put into evolving a unique char by including that char into nice limited treatments, right by considering these special features.

[Aiwendil]

If my personal best ooc friend ingame wouldnt have a fitting char i wouldnt sell to him, period. In the given example, have that friend play a thug, he of course wouldnt even be able to talk more than 2 sentences to my mage trader.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't very clear about it. I completely agree with you there. Some of my characters surly wouldn't become good friends with characters another of my chars knows quit well . I was not talking about players, I talked about characters.

[Mythryndel]

FYI... i just had a thought. If you really want to encourage people to be fully immersed in a RP environment, the place to start is the NPC dialog. While i agree that the scripts coming from the NPCs are in character, the player responses to them certainly aren't. I know that this is an evolving process, but this is where most players first real interaction with the game comes from(tutorial level). When you have to condition yourself to always ask "about X" or "give me Y", this is not setting a stage for a good RP environment between your character other players.

Also, it is only really beneficial to RP good characters. Everything I have read from the tutorial or the forums is about making it enjoyable for everyone. If you have truly evil characters, this is not going to happen. Someone is going to get upset.

Also, (in know... i'm on a roll now... watch out), if you have the option of declining a PvP contest, there is no real consequence to running your mouth in-game. I can RP whatever I want against a snotty little drunk guy in the tavern, but if he doesn't feel like joining in, there is no consequences for him telling the entire room that i should just go take acting lessons or jump in a lake.

ok... i'm done for now... i think.