Author Topic: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]  (Read 15374 times)

SovHed

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #60 on: April 16, 2008, 12:03:48 am »
I'd like to point out that it isnt JUST IZZABELLA.. I posted this thread and I am responsible as well, so please don't direct all your abuse to her.

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1. Do you intend to return our stuff?
Nope, we sold it already
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2. Why did you wait at least 33 hours to inform us that you were doing a RP and we don't really have any option than to accept and follow the rules you have set?
I think you realized the moment one of you tried to get into the guild hall and warning you would really have ruined our stealth don't you think?

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3. You don't considering involving us in a RP like that without even asking one of us and set up a set of rules is god modding?
Setting up rules for robbing.. thats a contradiction already. Theres not really a way to make a theft "fair".. and theres also no way of planning you leaving your door open.... go figure.

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4. How can you claim we left our door open when we know it might as well be a bug? We instructs the members that have a kety for the GH carefully how to enter the house you know.
Obviously one of your members forgot to lock it as every other house is locked and has been locked since that time. Also, when you lock your own house don't you check its locked properly?

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5. Do you think we find loosing all our stuff in the GH fun without knowing why it is gone and having no chance of knowing who did it?
No I shouldn't think it was terribly fun for you but being robbed is never fun. It is gone because you left the door open and we did it. <<still ooc btw :)

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6. wouldn't it have been possible to do this just by taking our furniture or some other unimportant stuff and leaving a note saying you have been robbed instead of ripping us completely taking stuff that there was a purpose why it was there?
As I mentioned before thieves don't take your underwear they take your TV, thats completely illogical

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7. Do you intend to leave us clues somewhere so we have a chance of tracking you down (IC)?
We have left lots of clues but you obviously haven't seen them so what more can we do?

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8, will you be willing to negotiate a set of rules for this that alters the way you have acted so far?
Like what? we return your stuff and surrender to the town guard suffering a permadeath? or prewarn you in advance next time so you can say no?

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9. did you consider that this might actually course a lot more harm than fun?
It's a robbery, it isn't fun. Next time will break into your guild house and tidy it up and maybe leave some nice things for you.

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10. why did you not contact at least one of our members before you did this? That would have helped a lot on how we feel about this
See question number 2

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11. Did you leave chars in our GH which could steel even more stuff from us?
No, we left after cleaning you out I think, but you'll never know will you?

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12. How did you manage to steal everything when there were around 100 Elemental Light members sleeping in there and a few others which have been granted access?
100 people in your guildhouse? do you sleep on the windowsill? Pretty cosy I would imagine ;)

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13. How can you say for sure that the NPC outside our door didn't otice anything oh and also the NPC at the entrance into the Plaza?
After the event I asked Fholen Medraa about it and he said: 
Quote
   
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about robbery
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about thieves
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about guild house
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?

So I think that about covers all your questions. Please let me know if you have more...
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 12:07:20 am by SovHed »
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kiaerulf

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2008, 12:06:23 am »
My 2 Tria:  How were they supposed to coordinate this ahead of time?  It's kinda hard to predict when somebody's going to leave the guildhouse unlocked...btw...RPing leaving clues behind for the long-term is difficult without extremely close coordination and/or some form of support from the game-mechs.  Also, people tend to have OOC emotions over their characters, unfortunately.  (some more than others)  So, if you feel like settling this through coordination, go ahead...I personally do not think of it as right for GMs/Devs to get involved AT ALL though, considering that the thieves did not exploit anything in order to enter.

I dont' ask for much coordination just some kind of notice and agreement. But doing it like this not leaving us any option on how to act is bad RP IMHO.
And as I said: You could have asked me and i would have forgotten to lock the door. Now I will never participate in a event like this.

If at least one person in EL knew this and could ensure us that nothing "bad" would happen yea, then I would feel a lot more possitive about this. Right now I dont' see any way out of this RP-wise.

The GM's got involved because nobody in EL knew this was a RP. Whether or not they exploited anything i don't know and have no way of telling.

- Kiaerulf

Duraza

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #62 on: April 16, 2008, 12:08:37 am »
Kiaerulf: I know what you mean but take this situation to understand where I'm coming from as well.

Two players plan to have a one on one fight, a good guy and a bad guy. What the bad guy doesn't expect is that a few other good guys randomly appear at the scene (not knowing it was to happen) and help defend the good guy and beat the bad guy. Now if your the bad guy and you start complaining that what happened wasn't apart of the planned event you'd be the one being a bad rper. The good guys could claim that they were acting in character, responding to a situation. They are noble and would not just stand and watch as someone beat up on another they felt equally noble.

That situation happens often to players like me who like to start trouble. Plenty of players get involved and go agaisnt me but I don't get mad because I know its rp and that is the risk you take. If I did people would find me silly and a bad rper.

Whatever thieves were involved in this event did the same thing. They responded ICly to something their character realized. Complaining about it happeneing is just as bad as if I were to complain everytime a new good guy wanted to kill me. In situation one I'd be losing the argument so what should make situation two any more different?

I'm really going to wonder how the community is going to act when lockpicking and pickpocketing are actually implemented and these things can happen without any warning. It is going to happen eventually so learn how to react to it now in an rp manner.
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Izzabella

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2008, 12:12:00 am »
My 2 Tria:  How were they supposed to coordinate this ahead of time?  It's kinda hard to predict when somebody's going to leave the guildhouse unlocked...btw...RPing leaving clues behind for the long-term is difficult without extremely close coordination and/or some form of support from the game-mechs.  Also, people tend to have OOC emotions over their characters, unfortunately.  (some more than others)  So, if you feel like settling this through coordination, go ahead...I personally do not think of it as right for GMs/Devs to get involved AT ALL though, considering that the thieves did not exploit anything in order to enter.

I dont' ask for much coordination just some kind of notice and agreement. But doing it like this not leaving us any option on how to act is bad RP IMHO.
And as I said: You could have asked me and i would have forgotten to lock the door. Now I will never participate in a event like this.

If at least one person in EL knew this and could ensure us that nothing "bad" would happen yea, then I would feel a lot more possitive about this. Right now I dont' see any
way out of this RP-wise.

The GM's got involved because nobody in EL knew this was a RP. Whether or not they exploited anything i don't know and have no way of telling.

- Kiaerulf

We did not exploit anything but an unlocked door. and think about if you went to work one morning and left you house unlocked. your house would be empty when you returned so yeah...bad things happen..move on. you guys still have each other and your house and hard lesson learned to lock your door.



Edit---also as far as I know no GM's are involved other than the comments on here. I did not report anyone for harassing and yelling and guilt tripping me OOC. I am not like that, OOC, I deal with it myself and talk to you if you want to reasonably but stop trying to make me feel bad OOC for my char's actions. My char is a thug, she feels no guilt, sure I do OOC..in fact OOC I had to be talked into doing this! I was telling them no... so cut me a little slack people I was merely RPing. again I've not used the /report feature, contacted a GM or used /ignore (in fact I've never used the /ignore command before other than to test it once and remove the name after :P)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 12:19:22 am by Izzabella »

Velh Krome

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2008, 12:18:31 am »
Quote from: Sov
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about robbery
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about thieves
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about guild house
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Ouch, own goal - please tell me you consider NPCs are meant to be smarter than that, and please tell me you didnt do the break in front of Fholens nose...  :-X

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No, we left after cleaning you out I think, but you'll never know will you?
A proper and honest "No of course not" can be expected, instead of provoking more  ::|

I cant help, but with that your post I am starting to wonder a bit..

Izzabella

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2008, 12:21:21 am »
Quote from: Sov
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about robbery
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about thieves
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about guild house
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Ouch, own goal - please tell me you consider NPCs are meant to be smarter than that, and please tell me you didnt do the break in front of Fholens nose...  :-X


No Velh that was a joke. we had a an outlaw talking to him at the time about some questions on Laanx and how to better serve Laanx himself. ;)

or maybe he was doing this as taken from one of my char's logs...
-Fholen sinks to the ground as his legs fail him and wracking sobs shake his body.-  -don't anything else was on his mind at this point ;)
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 12:25:28 am by Izzabella »

Velh Krome

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2008, 12:23:13 am »
admitted, nice counter!=D

Noriin

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SovHed

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2008, 12:27:36 am »
For all those who didnt get it *sigh* it was a joke..

Check if you are silly by going here
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 12:29:13 am by SovHed »
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kiaerulf

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #69 on: April 16, 2008, 12:34:23 am »
I'd like to point out that it isnt JUST IZZABELLA.. I posted this thread and I am responsible as well, so please don't direct all your abuse to her.

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1. Do you intend to return our stuff?
Nope, we sold it already


Well, then we don't really have anything to discuss ... You have an entire guild on your backs now ... and i kinda have a feeling that we got a few supporters in other guilds too.

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2. Why did you wait at least 33 hours to inform us that you were doing a RP and we don't really have any option than to accept and follow the rules you have set?
I think you realized the moment one of you tried to get into the guild hall and warning you would really have ruined our stealth don't you think?


Well, I think there is a reason why we filed a petition: Nobody had a clue of what was going on. You could at least have written in the note [this is a RP: for any further details contact: XYZ. But please note that XYZ do not participate in this event as an actor just as a supervisor]

Quote

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3. You don't considering involving us in a RP like that without even asking one of us and set up a set of rules is god modding?
Setting up rules for robbing.. thats a contradiction already. Theres not really a way to make a theft "fair".. and theres also no way of planning you leaving your door open.... go figure.

Did you even consider the possibility that we might actully like such an event if we had a clue?
Yes, Im telling you: You should have contacted one of our Tamers. Ask him to act as a supervisor just so we know what was going on and what to expect.
I don't really need many rules for such an event except for one: People will get the stuff back that matters to them.

Quote
Quote
4. How can you claim we left our door open when we know it might as well be a bug? We instructs the members that have a kety for the GH carefully how to enter the house you know.
Obviously one of your members forgot to lock it as every other house is locked and has been locked since that time. Also, when you lock your own house don't you check its locked properly?


Oh well, this is not pretty anymore so i might aswell write this:
Since you are so certain about this I can only guess on you had an insider that have gotten a key somehow.

Quote

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5. Do you think we find loosing all our stuff in the GH fun without knowing why it is gone and having no chance of knowing who did it?
No I shouldn't think it was terribly fun for you but being robbed is never fun. It is gone because you left the door open and we did it. <<still ooc btw :)


I don't understand the smiley there. You are ruining the pleasure for a lot of people with playing PS and you find it funny?
This is a game pal. Its supposed to be funny FOR EVERYBODY.

Quote
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6. wouldn't it have been possible to do this just by taking our furniture or some other unimportant stuff and leaving a note saying you have been robbed instead of ripping us completely taking stuff that there was a purpose why it was there?
As I mentioned before thieves don't take your underwear they take your TV, thats completely illogical


So thieves steal all furniture plants and everything else of absolutely no value? NO
This looks more like a vandetta against a guild than an actual fun RP event.

Quote

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7. Do you intend to leave us clues somewhere so we have a chance of tracking you down (IC)?
We have left lots of clues but you obviously haven't seen them so what more can we do?


We had absolutely no idea if we should look for clues.

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8, will you be willing to negotiate a set of rules for this that alters the way you have acted so far?
Like what? we return your stuff and surrender to the town guard suffering a permadeath? or prewarn you in advance next time so you can say no?


Well, At least return the stuff that matters to people. Stuff thats not easily replaceable. But I guess you didn't think that far as this would actually affect a lot of people alot.

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9. did you consider that this might actually course a lot more harm than fun?
It's a robbery, it isn't fun. Next time will break into your guild house and tidy it up and maybe leave some nice things for you.


ITS a game. But if you like it that way I am now (or at least my alt is) an assassin looking out for "random" people to kill ... is that fun? Tell me if its fun when you have been killed 10 times in a day when you just want to mine platinum. Yea, it might seem meaning less to you, but its great fun for me ... so i guess its ok.

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10. why did you not contact at least one of our members before you did this? That would have helped a lot on how we feel about this
See question number 2


You still don't get it do you?

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11. Did you leave chars in our GH which could steel even more stuff from us?
No, we left after cleaning you out I think, but you'll never know will you?


If you did, that highly OOC and will definitely get reported and expected to taken action upon. There is absolutely no way you would be able to hide in there IC.

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12. How did you manage to steal everything when there were around 100 Elemental Light members sleeping in there and a few others which have been granted access?
100 people in your guildhouse? do you sleep on the windowsill? Pretty cosy I would imagine ;)


You didn't answer the question. Or did you not think that was possible?

Quote

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13. How can you say for sure that the NPC outside our door didn't otice anything oh and also the NPC at the entrance into the Plaza?
After the event I asked Fholen Medraa about it and he said: 
Quote
   
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about robbery
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about thieves
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?
Sov says: about guild house
Fholen Medraa says: I don't understand. Can you rephrase?

So I think that about covers all your questions. Please let me know if you have more...

Oh yea, thats RP at its best ... i see that ... NOT
Thats just taking advantage of game mechanics again.


Find a reasonable solution to this OOC quick, one that benefits us.

- Kiaerulf
Ulber Tamer of Elemental Light
[/quote]

Noriin

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2008, 12:39:09 am »
For all those who didnt get it *sigh* it was a joke..

Check if you are silly by going here
.
I like the tone this thread is gathering.
I was up to defend the thieves here since they've always had a hard time to play they chars.
Every time I was about to post.. realized there were already 5 more in there...
However this shows off, no need to say more.
Both parties are wasting their time so Kiareulf.. I wouldn't bother trying

Thank you all for bringing the show up, was fun.

SovHed

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2008, 12:48:31 am »
1: Your guild still doesn't have anything pointing to us as a guild... that im aware of.. so no ic action should really be taken agaisnt us unless you have a firm IC reason for agression non-related to this event.

2: you filed a petition because you got robbed? o.O wow ok... .

Stuff that is valuable to you? small potted plants? some crafted swords, some npc bought swords, a couple of empty sacks, a couple of sacks with daggers in, and a few bits of armor.... Nothing terribly personal in that, nothing that can't be replaced.  I'm terribly sorry if you did lose something of emotional value to you, but if you have OOC emotions for an item IG..... detach RL from IG.

A laugh? No :) is a smile.. not a laugh..  ;D is a laugh... not :) see the difference?

a vendetta against you? no... not really, just saw an open door and thought we'd have a look, if it was my house I'd understandably be annoyed, but mostly with myself for leaving the door open..

No we didn't have an insider, thats OOC and we don't do that, thats against my guild's philosophy and i'd appreciate you not suggesting it. you left your door open, we walked in. Thats it.

The parts about the character in the guildhouse and the npc quotes at the end were intended as a joke... [humor] adding light heartedness to a nasty situation... sorry if you didn't read that from it.

A solution that benefits you? Hmmm well we could stop calling eachother names.. that would benefit us both. If there is something in particular you lost that is IRREPLACEABLE.. I mean you cant get it back, no matter what, and we still have it, I will return it. as i understand what it is to loose something very very special...

Other than that. Theres not really much else other than that, If you want some other sort of recompense, I suggest you take it up with an insurance company, you have insurance don't you?

I also second what Noriin just said and please can we let it rest already, I think we've both made our arguments clear.

also as an afterthought.. remember: even if you are in a little fantasy world, someone can always burst your bubble of perfection. Good guys DONT ALWAYS WIN
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 12:50:09 am by SovHed »
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Izzabella

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2008, 12:52:36 am »
Noriin we were tying to lighten things up ;)

And no we did not plan this, a Char simply was walking around checking doors like a thief would do and got lucky, damn lucky, he then left and got his friends to come help him. we moved quickly and skillfully.

I am not going to ask my next neighbor in RL if I can break into his house next week and take his stuff. Get real people. we acted purely IC and did as our chars would do who stumbled upon  an unlocked house. I am sorry for your loss. you've learned your lesson, and let it be a good one.

Once again we had no spys in your guild to unlock it for us..talk about ooc :P and we did not exploit any bugs.

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2008, 12:53:40 am »
Sov: They filed a petition because they had no idea what happened - if they experienced a bug, if someone deliberately broke in for OOC reasons, etc.
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Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

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Re: Attn: Elemental Light Guildhall raid confirmed [OOC]
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2008, 12:57:33 am »
Meh, reading through the thread I have mixed feelings.

There's the "exploit" argument. Last release, there were issues with guildhouse locks. These issues should be fixed, but new ones might pop up, you can never know. Concerning unlocked locks, I advise caution. There's always the possibility of a problem, so be gentle and don't act rashly.

Of course, thieves should steal. Stealing isn't fun, but where's the fun for evil characters if they are not allowed to inflict damage since it's "not fun"? I agree however that roleplay should always give both parties an opportunity to respond. Roleplay goes both ways.

Then, the entire guildhouse was cleaned out. One could ask yourself how that's done since the house would unlikely be deserted (no players around is no excuse, since your character becomes invisible when logged out). Dumb NPCs is no excuse either. Also, thieves would steal valuable goods and I don't see thieves running off with tables, chairs, bookcases, potted plants and entire closets. Such a theft would surely not go unnoticed by either random folks, guards or merchants.

This situation is hard to fix, since the items are already gone. Because of some hostile feeling I'm sensing here I doubt a good follow-up roleplay will come from this too. I think both parties have learned, better leave it at that. The first guildhouse robbery was bound to happen, and it was bound to go wrong.
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