Author Topic: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"  (Read 8926 times)

Nikodemus

  • Prospects
  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1808
    • View Profile
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2008, 01:20:40 pm »
@Nikodemus: I agree with a lot of your points, except for one. You say people join guilds for ooc reasons to get spoilers. Well, while it is trua that most (if not all guilds) have spoilers, I doubt a player will join a guild only for that. Most (if not all) guilds recruit their members by IC means and before a member joins a guild they most probably won't know the quality and quantity of the spoilers in their forums. Btw, what is the star in your post referring to?  :P
There was/are clear examples of people who was joining different guilds to broaden their spoilers database, even guilds stealing spoilers from each another. If there was people motivated enough to speak about it openly on these forums, there are a lot more who does it and you never know (because it is their goal, it would be mine if i was doing this) Yes, i suppose many people (not everyone) join guilds because of IC reasons, but I wouldn't be suprised if many of them have choosen a guild with good storyline and spoilers over a guild with only good storyline.
I really cant say how many guilds recruit with only IC means and if massrecruiting is still present in game, but i risk saying that it is over that it is marginal.
I added an arrow to the first star ;) The second star is refering to the first one.

Quote
If everyone are running around with glyphs of doom, which are supposed to be very rare and unknown to most, is it looking realistic?
Glyph of doom? Oh gimme da spoiler! :D
No seriously, it's not realistic, but the problem here lays within the game mechanics, which yet reveal the same reward to every person who does the quest and in due time a lot of people will do it, with or without spoilers. A possible solution would be to change the quest system to allow random rewards and make the most rare reward have a lesser chance to be gotten than the not so rare rewards - yeah, that sounds like an idea, gonna feature request that ;)
Sorry, don't have one ;P
But wil you agree there will be more people runing around with glyph of doom at a given time if spoilers are present?
With taking into account that people come and go. They play PS, takes a break and maybe leave and meanwhile new people join.
I would rather like to see less glyphs of doom if they are supposed to be rare, rather than see more of them because of spoilers.



What you can failure tommorow, failure today.


Better click for shiny stylez Help me with images!

Kaityra

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 279
    • View Profile
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2008, 01:37:18 pm »
o wow, are you just strongly into spoiling or are you just proving something for the sake of doing it for some reasons?

Sometimes I like to use spoilers, sometimes I don't. But it is me who decides when to do what. Well, you know that this world has all shades of grey. There is not always black and white. I totally understand people who don't want to use spoilers but I do understand people, too, who are in need of some spoiling. Simple as that.

As for the first part, so you are saying that if someone gets a glyph with spoilers path, he did it because he is smart or rather because he machancally retyped some certain phrases? If everyone are running around with glyphs of doom, which are supposed to be very rare and unknown to most, is it looking realistic? Yeah, I actually want you to answer this question. Go laugh if it makes you feel better.

Oh, didn't realise that I was saying this. I thought we were talking about spoilers in general. Do you really think that removing all spoilers from the forum(s) will solve this problem you mentioned? You notice that there are other ways to get the necessary information, e.g. other players, guilds? People who are into powerplaying usually find these sources of information rather quickly and are not in need of some spoilers in some forum. So I'm saying equal rights for everyone and leave it to the players to decide, wether they want to use the spoilers or not.

In to regard to laughing, you can believe me that it is a bitter laugh. Why? Because every day I'm in Planeshift I see so many things that really ruin my roleplaying experience in this game and none of it has anything to do with spoilers.

As for the second part, please learn quoting the full context, rather than part of it, which isn't telling anything at all.

I was quoting that part I was refering to. I really hate it when people quote whole threads when they just want to refer to none or a small part of it. This really clutters the forums with useless information.

citizen

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2008, 01:44:15 pm »
[...You notice that there are other ways to get the necessary information, e.g. other players, guilds? ...

If for example someone asked me during quest where to find X, i telled him/her try in Hydlaa and added something like "And don't miss to view the city panorama from the roof of the tavern!"

This type if hinting is ok i think :)

Cebot

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 161
    • View Profile
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2008, 01:54:13 pm »
Quote
I would rather like to see less glyphs of doom if they are supposed to be rare, rather than see more of them because of spoilers.
I'd prefer to see them given out more rarely, no matter if there are spoilers or not. The feature request I posted http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/index.php?do=details&task_id=1456 here would solve that issue. :)

Do you really think that removing all spoilers from the forum(s) will solve this problem you mentioned?
IMHO it won't solve the issue, besides the fact that it is almost impossible, even if the PS staff could get on every guild site and enforce the guild people to remove the spoilers, they could still trade them as text files via email or messenger or by other means. Some people even don't use spoiler lists but ask friends ingame via /tell
I don't think spoilers should be forbidden _that_ strictly, just because there are situations where someone really needs this kind of help.  Be it people who don't speak english well enough to figure the correct phrasing, or be it that a riddle is too hard for someone and s/he needs a little hint - or other reasons, you know as best why you use spoilers, don't you? :D

You notice that there are other ways to get the necessary information, e.g. other players, guilds?
Imho asking other players for the solution of a quest is also spoiling, thats why it is so hard to strictly forbid them, besides: you can legally spoil in public and noone can forbid you to do so - simply by rping it (like a player comes to a crowd of other players and asks for the answer of a riddle, everyone is legally allowed to tell the answer in an IC way :P

In to regard to laughing, you can believe me that it is a bitter laugh. Why? Because every day I'm in Planeshift I see so many things that really ruin my roleplaying experience in this game and none of it has anything to do with spoilers.
I'm glad you still play :D
So why do I love when I still feel pain?
When does it end, when is my work done?
Why do I fight and why do I feel that
I carry a sword, that I carry a sword through a battlefield?

VNV Nation - Joy

Alfonso Knaf

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
    • PSDe
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2008, 02:24:37 pm »
I am too a member of the staff of psde.de as well as founder of the site.
It's true we have spoilers publically available and the reason is exactly like peeg phrased it.
We provide help (you can call it spoilers) for the same reason the official boards provide the tutorial walkthrough, to avoid frustration.

Anyhow "heavy" spoilers are only available after registration and therefore not visible when searching for "planeshift deutsch hilfe" (planeshift german help) via google.
I would be really disappointed when the link to psde.de in the other languages section would be removed.
We provide much more than just spoilers we provide a community base and help in general. Besides we are a few months away from providing the first working translation since MB as well as a platform for translation open for every language. We wouldn't have found helfull (and nice) community members which dedicate their time to this if it weren't for our site.
We encourage roleplaying whenever possible, in fact our staff values rp in PS over most other aspects and that's what we try to get across to our community.
I would really like to discuss all this further with the PS team, maybe we find a solution...
"What is the mind? Doesn't matter. - What is matter? Never mind."

Nikodemus

  • Prospects
  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1808
    • View Profile
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2008, 03:10:52 pm »
I was quoting that part I was refering to. I really hate it when people quote whole threads when they just want to refer to none or a small part of it. This really clutters the forums with useless information.
we all hate when people quote wholeo post but what you did is equal to quoting one word and it looks like commenting on it.
Quote full context.

We can keep saying that we should freely allow spoilers, because powergamers always find a way and we RPers sometimes need spoilers to keep the thing fun but with that we forget that it isn't working in binary mode. In fact, the more we support spoilers, the more people gets convinced with powerleveling, the same people may keep RPing, but the same people will gain unfair edge over players who don't want to use spoilers even if it means they fail quest, they won't reach their so wanted goals. Life, same as real, you need to learn enjoing it.
In short, the more you support spoilers the less people try playing without them.

I use to say this: spoilers are fine as long as you keep sharing them while in game, because this method limits them to IMO controllable level. When you have not enough time to go in game, ask friends, but forums and sites with these are not very good way to go.

Now, as i wrote in my first post, I think the whole thing will be valid and very good solution discouraging spoiling if the NPCs communication system was working good enough. It isn't, so I really won't blame anyone for spoiling.
The only question is what we do when the NPC communication start working enough that 95% of people will be fully satisfied.



What you can failure tommorow, failure today.


Better click for shiny stylez Help me with images!

Xillix Queen of Fools

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1876
    • View Profile
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2008, 03:39:48 pm »
Spoilers are completely against the spirit of the game. In this stage of development (still alpha) it is IMPERATIVE that people DO get frustrated!

Frustration leads to bug reports, but reports to smarter npcs, smarter npcs to a better game.

The philosophy of the two PSDE members posted here and several other posters would make much more sense if the game was finished; it is not.

We need people to find the flaws and to report them.

An extensive list of spoilers ANYWHERE is not in the best interest of furthering PlaneShift.

If any community wants to help, do so by teaching people to be patient, leading them to the bug tracker, and helping them to learn how to use it.

An alarming number of people are using PS like it is a finished product, stop this insanity and test the game please.


Prolix

  • Guest
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2008, 03:52:47 pm »
I like spoilers! They make cars go fast! and look really cool! Oh, wait, wrong kind of spoiler.

I looked at the site with the aid of google translation and did not see anything too offensive. I even did a search for spoiler.
Tempest <--> Teacup, I think.

Sen

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 746
    • View Profile
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2008, 04:00:56 pm »
Frustration could possibly lead to more bug reports if people get highly motivated the same time
(not _are_ hightly motivated, _being made_ motivated by whatever; this doesn't come by itself)
Frustration without the high motivation leads to more people leaving imho and rather less bug reports.

I like the idea of those bug reports making the game better, but following this strictly there would be... uhm.. plenty of redundant bug entries - imagine all those who can't get through the tutorial would make bug reports... I wouldn't want to work through them. *opens the discussion if spoilers might be given in help channel  ;D*
.....also a saddle that won't pinch the tail. One day!

Kaityra

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 279
    • View Profile
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2008, 04:03:52 pm »
Sorry Xillix, but I think frustration only leads to player leaving this game. I mean, this game has been in its alpha for how many years? The forum is full of bug reports, suggestions and new ideas but it seems that the devs can't keep up with players reporting. It is not that we see a new version every other month or so. Please don't get me wrong, I really like this game, not so much because of its content but because the roleplaying aspect is still greater than in other games despite my occasional rants. Please look around on the MMORPG market and you will see, that there are quite a few games with much greater content then Planeshift, even in the free-to-play section.
Well, I think that this game has a lot of players helping it despite some spoilers hanging around somewhere.

Caarrie

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3369
  • We want no UNFIXED bugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • View Profile
    • PlaneShift3dMods
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2008, 04:33:31 pm »
The forum is full of bug reports, suggestions and new ideas but it seems that the devs can't keep up with players reporting.

The forum is NOT the place to report bugs, if you have a bug report it on the bug tracker, if you have a decent feature request report it there as well, not all devs have time to look though the forum for issues to add/fix ingame.

Anumesa

  • Guest
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2008, 04:43:03 pm »
I just visited the German forums and entered no password to see the spoilers. The only thing keeping me from reading them is that I don't speak German :-[.

I dont either!!! I see no problem here... >.>

 ;D kidding


Kaityra

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 279
    • View Profile
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2008, 04:58:31 pm »
The forum is full of bug reports, suggestions and new ideas but it seems that the devs can't keep up with players reporting.

The forum is NOT the place to report bugs, if you have a bug report it on the bug tracker, if you have a decent feature request report it there as well, not all devs have time to look though the forum for issues to add/fix ingame.

If you reread my post you will see that "bug reports" was just one part of it. I wanted to express that the devs have quite a large amount of feedback, being it from the forum or the bug tracker.
Oh, and speaking of bug reports, aren't bug reports some form of spoilers, too? I mean, if you know a bug you can either avoid or exploit it, depending on the bug.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 05:05:12 pm by Kaityra »

Dajoji

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1058
    • View Profile
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2008, 05:10:22 pm »
Bugs that are exploitable are marked as private so only team members working on them can have access to them.


Nikodemus

  • Prospects
  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1808
    • View Profile
Re: German PlaneShift Community and "spoilers"
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2008, 05:21:40 pm »
yay, good to know.



What you can failure tommorow, failure today.


Better click for shiny stylez Help me with images!