Roleplaying Focus

[Prolix]

Zwenze, critic isn't to put you down, but to perfect your roleplay. We are trying to aid you to make your roleplay events as perfect as possible, so you can look back at them and say "Wow, that went well.".

How are you so perfect that you can perfect other players role play? Here let me nit pick you. That should have been "criticism isn't to put you down." Just because it did not go like you think it should have doesn't mean that they thought it went wrong. It was their role play, if you do not like it do not participate.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I am not suggesting we change the rp focus, as much as stirring players to get off their duffs and bring us more rpers, as well as be more open minded and spend more time with newer players.

[Donari Tyndale]

Prolix, it is nice of you that you assume my roleplay is perfect. I don't know how my roleplay got that perfect how you think it is, so I can not answer your question.  Besides, flaming me isn't going to get you anywhere. My suggestion did not imply me perfecting the roleplay of others, we as a community can achieve that. No person can know everything, and mistakes happen. That is why we have such a lovely community that is willing to point out mistakes straight away, instead of merely keeping them in mind and ignoring the roleplay. We want roleplays where everyone cares to take part, and where everyone wants to join in. That is why we voice our opinions so often, even if they are rather negative.

[Arerano]

Honestly, do you believe that PlaneShift's focus on Role-playing is costing it players?

I'm sorry, I don't believe that the current skills and training system encourages RPing or encourages RPers to use it. To attract more RPers, this ought to change. - making the gap between those who do train (to train doesn't automatically mean that they don't RP) and those who don't, smaller.
Or maybe I should call that gap "The gap between mechanics-users and mechanics-opposers."
If you don't click buttons hundreds of times, you will stay the same forever.

Based on that oppinion I don't feel right to vote here.. or at least I wouldn't know which answer to pick.

[Prolix]

Well pardon my testiness, the weather is quite unpleasant.

I do think that all-inclusive roleplays are not particularly the way to go as opposed to a set of unconnected contemporaneous role plays are more appropriate. If role play is a discouraging factor then it is the tension within the community between the various philosophies of role playing that makes it so.

[Mathy Stockington]

I believe that the roleplaying focus costs players. But I am willing to live with that. PlaneShift should stick with this focus, it's the reason I play it. If it would be like any other mmorpg, I'd not play it. Of course you could easily change PlaneShift into another R* and have masses of players, but I think quality goes first, even with a lesser amount of players.

* Mathy Stockington agrees completely.

[Tuxide]

I voted the third option here, but I don't know if it's worded the way I want it to be.  The problem with encouraging something "new" to other people, such as RP, is that it needs to be done in a way that doesn't alienate others.  It is like giving a PS3 controller to your grandmother.  Ultimately, I'm not sure if it's a community thing or a user interface/mechanics thing.  When people come to PlaneShift, the first thing they see in-game is the tutorial world.  They don't interact with anyone unless it's on the IRC channel or on the forums, and I really hate these forums.

[Nikodemus]

in MB the player base was 20 in he early days, then it was 60 before CB. In CB it came to almost 250, but i think it stopped at that not because of the bug, but because the features PS offers are enough for that player base. I mea people online at the same time. Because playerbase is of course bigger, but the "people online at the same time" is what we speak about.

Why don't I play PS daily. First i tell something about some other popular game.
GW it was a lot fun at the beginning and now it is just boring. I completed one major campaign and doing it for the second time would be boring, though i may complete the other campaigns. But after that there is nothing to return.
PS is different - there is always something to come back, a hope it will change for a better, that there will be always something unique. I don't really play now because all what was interesting about it, currently burned out. There is the promise of a world a player can make a difference in, that they can shape the reality. The only groups of people, guild people can shape are thievies or some kind of protectors and all kinds of groups who will never have real inpact on the world shape. All the possible changes and achievemnts will be all gone with the players, though maybe they wouldn't leave if the other was true.
The oldest currently active guild - DE is there since so long, that many devs discovered PS later, yet I think their storyline isn't going in game in the slightest (though maybe i just don't know :s). The setting is developed completly undependently Once the setting known to players was so small that they had to create something to hang for and RP around. Maybe it is enough now, but then you have one reason why many of the oldbies aren't there anymore, I think.
In PS people can't own and manage piece of land/structure, maybe not yet, but it is a major element supporting RP but also something bringing playerbase. Something what people can care about in game, something what will stay even if they disappear.

The game mechanics are also a key factor(not that the above is not about game mechanics). A realistic fighting system along with progression one (developing your char). I will say it again, if you have a high rank in fighting this indicates only your ability to strike hard, but there is nothing in it about defending yourself. Completly unreal, this isn't making people to stay. People also like to influence their chances in a fight not only through stats, but also dynamic actions they perform during the fight. Like in GW there is the concept of abilities you perform to give bosts for your regular attacks.

Another key element is the ability for repetation. Something what people may repeat and still be interested with it. I'm not speaking about killing the spawning mobs, but something much greater. Something involving actual thinking, obligatory teamwork and challange. It is repetative, because it is what is programmable. Programming something for one occassion won't enjoy masses of people.

well, thats it (below is a list not along its importance level)

+ storyline and place for players inside it they can enjoy and influence
+ creation of something bigger, what can be improved and managed, fought for
+ realistic game mechanics supporting their RP actions (thy are not very RP supportive right now) (non rpers will just enjoy they look real and maybe see why RP has sense. Besides there is bunch of people who like to rp within game mechanics)
+ repetation, planning, teamwork, challange, competition.
of what other people said
+ honest advertising of what they game is really offering, not what it is supposed to be, so people won't be disappointed and tell their friends.
+ tutorial, the first steps a player makes in the world, maybe, never did it in PS, but it is important.

Many of these aren't in PS yet, because they just arent there yet. But i believe when they be there, there will be more players, just like it went from MB 60 to CB 250.

Omg, the pool is unanswearable.
Yes some people cant rp, so they can't understand PS and leave. If i answer this, i conclude we shouldnt rp that much in PS? not an answer for me.
No coz PS can still strongly support RP, but to enjoy wider audience
Of course, the community can be always more welcoming, but then it is about game mechanics too.
we can send everyone not rping to hell, but then they will never learn and player base wont increase.
I can snork all the time, but first it would be probably a good idea to know what it means, haha.
No many people

[MustangMR]

Well, here I am again.  I mean this in the best possible way and I am not trying to tell you how to run your game or attack anyone for what is.

I voted to be more welcoming, just in case you had any doubts on which way I might be leaning.    Overall, my experience here has been less than perfect for a newb.  If I wasn't so hard headed, I'd have left a long time ago and just said the heck with this, it's not worth my time.  The game you're creating though, has too much potential.  If you are worried why you can't seem to grow, I would offer one suggestion; Open up your information base.  Keep the focus on roleplaying, that's great, accept that it will hinder you some, but develop an understanding with your customers.  I would suggest you build that understanding through openess, and not just tell new players to go around begging in game for information.  That flies in the face of everything we've gotten used to since the internet age arrived.  Game guides are all over the place.  Trying to stop it is like holding back a flood.  I do understand you need to keep some things hidden, but as your game grows and you have more content, consider moving the line a bit and letting more basic information out.

If you want a world to thrive, people have to understand that world.  There are things you want us to find out through trial and error that we should know the day we create our characters because those characters would have grown up in that world and seen many of the things every day that are confusing us, the players behind them.  Our characters have been around a while in game terms, we the players, have not  It takes a lot of time to understand a world well enough to role play in it.  Discussions need to happen, and people cannot be afraid to talk about subjects that may be taboo.  Allow some speculation to take place here on the forums.

Just my two cents worth.  I am not asking you to dumb your game down or open up the database (though it already is).  The focus on role playing is fine, imo.  Just open up a bit on what is important game information that should be expected to be learned vs. what might be common knowledge for a person growing up in Yliakum might have. 

[ThomPhoenix]

The oldest currently active guild - DE is there since so long, that many devs discovered PS later, yet I think their storyline isn't going in game in the slightest (though maybe i just don't know :s).

Settings is intending on integrating guilds into settings and vice versa. Won't say how of course

[Waoknie]

I will asume that (1)the question implicates that the focus on RP is recent or that (2)some things have been done to increase RP recently.
Since the game main description refers to a role playing type, I'll go w/ the second choice.
Now, if some things in the system/mechanics have deliberately changed in favor of RP, then there is the problem and of course it's costing players, me included.
Don't get me wrong, if you are a PS regular for a year or so, maybe you could recall that I used to RP a lot, so scrap off that idea! I enjoy RP too.
It's hard for me to number all things changed (in favor of RP) but what was wrong with RP before? I mean, it's a simple question.. honestly, what has changed RP-wise?.. nothing! well, except for the intro, which I'd advise to leave out of discussion cux not working properly atm.
Then, why?... why must a system be twisted to improve something that was doing fine? Where you comparing this game with others at that moment and decided you wanted MORE RP? these questions may seem out of context but no one speaks of it anyways.
I don't RP anymore (and of course enjoy less PS playing ) because IMO RP is being left as the only choice and by doing so, some great RP seeds have died. Seeds like something actually happening to our characters without any conversation, aproval, authorization, etc!. For those who read these forums constantly, sorry to repeat this: I've seen gr8 RP evolving from actual actions and few good ones from simple conversations. Nowdays, our chars are embeded in an unpenetrable protective 'bubble' so, no matter how trained/weak you are, don't worry.. nothing will 'happen' to you in PS. just words.. so , you can be as disrespectful, gracious, elegant, arrogant, fun.... as you wish. Many players have left for this single reason: All my efforts to evolve my char can be trashed by other's words, because nothing can be 'done' about it. Of course, there are hundreds of reasons.. it was just an example.
For all readers, sorry for the long post. For all repliers, don't pick on phrases, please try to focus on the point of the whole and make a good discussion. And if nothing was twisted on the system in favor of RP, forgive and forget.

[Mythryndel]

This is a huge flame war waiting to happen, but since it was started by a long time contributor, I expect to tone to remain more polite than if someone else had started it. I believe, based on extensive reading in this forum, that the community is almost desiring to keep this a members only club. I have had wonderful experiences in-game. I have RPed with people and I have improved my character by way of game mechanics.

The most often read criticism i hear in-game is about so-called godmodders. Those that either ignore the in-game mechanics that exist already in favor of imposing their RP will on others, or those that simply walk in and kill the entire tavern just because they said it happened. I play my character, and I interact with people as well as i can given the cumbersome tabs we have to work with. I probably frequently miss people trying to talk to me, but I do try very hard to not ignore people. My experience is that my effort is not always returned in-kind. I do not frequent the tavern and sit around simply using PS for a IRC client with really nice graphics. I am very happy, in general, with my experiences in-game.

Out of game is a whole different story. The forums are a huge source of bickering and fighting about RP and who is and isn't doing it right. I have posted suggestions on ways to improve the game and some have been well received, others not so much. There is also usually a distinct difference in the tone of those that have just recently come to PS and those that have been here a while. Those that are new are excited and usually full of ideas and take the time to share their opinions about what would make the game better in their eyes. Many that have been here longer are either coming across as elitist or arrogant and dismissing new ideas almost out-of-hand simply because they don't match their concept of the game or RP.

I understand that you probably read the same or similar suggestions frequently, but think about the fact that someone new not only downloaded the game, but played it, took the time to find and register on the forums, AND bothered to post anything at all before you slam them for a duplicate post or tell them their input is unappreciated. The most recent example on these forums is the change in location of a monthly merchant gathering. Due to technical difficulties experienced by those desiring to participate, a new location was named for this month. The "constructive" criticism included everything from telling them they were selling out to the PLing plat mining crowd to telling them they were going to be boycotted for daring to leave hydlaa and being greedy.

This attitude is not winning PS any popularity contests with new players. If you don't want anything other than RP going on in PS, then why bother wasting time on game mechanics? Create the most graphics intensive 3D IRC client the planet has ever seen and leave it at that. If you create game mechanics, expect people to use them and don't get so frustrated with people when they do.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Please stop pointing out the obvious or arguing over and over again for the same things.

I have had a tough few days arguing with you niko and MustangNR.

Niko, prolix, whoever else we know the mechanics need work.

MustangNR we have a clear policy on spoilers I really don't want to hear another argument based on this from you or anyone else. Your argument that people are not used to this in the internet age are reasonable, however when we ask a person to go into the game and look for help I think that is fair and automatically creates community and encourages interaction.

To everyone:

There is absolutely NO doubt in my mind that there is some very ugly behavior toward new players and ANYONE who logs on and cannot role play. I am just asking that you consider this fact and make more of an effort.

ROLE PLAYING IS AN ABSTRACTION. NO WHERE ON THIS FORUM IS ANY ARTICULATE DEFINITION OF ROLE PLAYING THAT EVERYONE HAS COMFORTABLY AGREED TO.

Being as this is true all testers should look to being more tolerant and communicative toward new players.

On a softer note, for everyone here: I know I am a hard ass and come across as harsh in many cases, but if I ask for you to clarify something please attempt to. If I make a comment I want it to be read.

I really will quit posting here if people continue to cherry-pick my statements to find the one thing they can object to and quote it back to me (which incidentally I also hate because it implies i do not know what I wrote) without taking the time to consider my perspective as the most vocal and active player's advocate on the ps dev team.

Karyuu once did what I now do and eventually the poison in the well caused her to have distaste for the waters here.

I want to listen to all of you and help to bring your opinions and concerns to the devs, but if you repeat yourselves ad nauseam, if you don't read what I write, if you ignore each other or simply troll for the fun of it you waste my time.

Whether you know it or not, my time is NOT what you want wasted.

[Nikodemus]

So, this thread is about people realising they should be more helpfull towards new players so it is easier for them to RP? Well yech, would be nice.

Omg i have no words
*poof*
Please, anyone, dont blame me for anything.

[MustangMR]

The irony of your last post, Xillix, in a thread asking why people are people are leaving, .... certainly that can't be lost on one so gifted such as you?

I'm out of here.  When opinions are wrong, the thought police are next.  You won't argue with me again.

By the way, read the damn material you love to throw in our faces.  Laanx goes from a woman to man in the third Epoch with no explanation.  Maybe you should spend more time reviewing your material and less time telling people they're wrong for questioning it.