making computer games

[rathma]

I was just thinking about making a computer game with a bunch of friends. Is there anyone who\'s expeienced enough to tell me how many people i need to have, what everyone should be responsible for, and how to learn it. I know there\'s something called c++ i need to learn, but that\'s about all i know on making games. Can someone help me out?

[Kinoss]

                       

Your post is quite amusing! LOL! you have a LOOOONNNNGGGG ways to go. Unless of course you just want to be the guy who tells everyone else what to do! ... Im not going to go into any detail on what you need to do though. Dont feel like it.

[Kundalf]

You\'re joking rathma, right ?

Otherwise I can only tell you first learn a programming language (like C++) then get better after that you should improve your skills, then improve your skills even further, then you can learn special things (like opneGL or database programming) and a few years later you may be able to start a game project with several ppl.....

Well you can make games way earlier, but don\'t belive anyone would be interested in games like \"guess the number\"...

[kyp14]

If you really are serious about making a game and have no 3D experience what so ever i suggest learning Gmax its a free 3D tool from discreet that is very professional and fun to use just look at my site http://le3dstudios.cjb.net nothing impressive but it shows what Gmax can do anyway I\'ll stop blabbering and give you the link http://www.discreet.com/products/gmax

[rathma]

thanks, i guess i\'ll take a look there. But when i said i wanted to learn about making computer games, why did everyone laugh? Every person who made computer games started somewhere, i just need to know where! I have a c++ book but it\'s really lame, i guess you can make games like tic tac toe but that about cuts it. Maybe it\'s not so much that i want to \"make a game\" but want to be on a team of people who work on a game. Maybe i can do character design or texturing. Anyone here know how to make characters,objects...that stuff?

[rathma]

oh, nvm i see i can make characters and stuff on the site kyp14 showed me. But i don\'t know what i get??

[acraig]

rathma, I think that the point that people are trying to get across is that it can take a long time to start to program anything very meaningful.

I can only speak for myself but I\'ve spent years just writing little programs like:

int main()
{
  printf(\"Hello World!\\n\");
  return 0;
}

Which isn\'t really exciting but you have to build up from that.  

I\'m sure it\'s similar in other areas... ( well maybe not art, I\'ve known some artists in school that must be magically talented.... God I hate them ).


-----------
Andrew

[Mehallie]

The reason people are laughing is because even programmers who have worked in computer code for AGES don\'t just toss a game up in a few weeks.  It takes years, more often than not.  There\'s no formula to create characters,  objects and whatnot, and there\'s a lot more than just coding; web artists (artists and programmers are often not the same people), creative writers, sound crews, testers and on and on.

I guess the question is; do you just want to make a game (as I have to say that probably anyone can just make a game) or do you want to make a GOOD game?

Basically, your best bet would be A) finish school if you\'re still in  B) get a computing degree (as just having C++ knowledge will not a game make) C) spend a good portion of your time coding as it\'s not just knowing the coding but your familiarity with it and D) make sure you really want to spend several years of your life creating said game, as it\'s going to take at least that long.

If that doesn\'t sound too daunting, then more power to you, but I assure you - you\'re not going to learn how to make this sort of MMOG with one book on programming.

[Ravenmaster]

I\'ve wanted to make computer games since I was about eight.  My stepdad told me back then that some day he would teach me how.  As a result, I decided there must be some game-making program on the computer, so I did a bunch of searches on it, but I couldn\'t find it. A couple years later, I found a book on Thin C.  I read through that entire 2.5 inch book and did everything it said.  So I had learned Thin C by 6th grade. Unfortunately, no one else in the world has heard of Thin C. I think it was a beginners program for Think C, which was a primitive form of C, which is a primitive form of C++.  Anyway, back in those days I made a couple text-based games. Some of them were like mad libs (pretty good, if you ask me), and I also made some really crappy rpgs. Some of them did the same thing no matter what you typed.  I also had fun with \\a, making the computer beep in an infinite loop.  Anyway, my programming skills got rusty.  There were no programming classes at my middle school or high school and my stepdad never taught me how to make games. I downloaded some programs off the internet for making certain types of games. I made some of those that were fun, but very limiting.  I also bought all sorts of games where I could make my own maps and campaigns.  Then, in 11th grade I moved to a new school and took an Intro to Computer Programming class. It\'s all C++. That\'s where I am now. I\'ve made a couple good text-based games (my friend played it for 4 hours one night, then went and fought the ogre and died, hehe, I made it so the ogre gets stronger the stronger you get. )  Some day, I will make good games (unless I die before then), but I don\'t dream of learning Visual C++ today, starting a great game tonight, finishing sometime this weekend, selling it and making billions of dollars.  Basically, what I\'m saying is, there are many people who want to make games, and it takes a long time.  If you haven\'t even learned C++ yet, you have many years ahead of you before this thing is done, or started.

[rathma]

Everybody i\'ve talked to said it will take tons of years and i\'m ok with that, i just want to know if learning c++ is the first step i should be taking, because right now i\'m in 8th grade and elementary school doesn\'t even teach you how to TURN ON a computer so i kinda hafta teach my self right now. So is reading a book called \"the idiots guide to c++\" the right step for me?

[AendarCallenlasse]

Well I took a C++ class at school but if I were you I\'d buy books on C++ and read through them all and do what they say.  Also you can look to colleges who offer classes.  You don\'t have to go to the college to take classes there, at least at most colleges.  Depending on what exactly you want to do you will need to learn to model as well.  Creating a game isn\'t an easy task though.  A game made by a large company alone can take about a year and a half.  And that is by people who have been doing this for a long time and with a large group.  It is going to take you years alone to learn how to program enough to create a really good game.  If I were you though I\'d start off small.  The first language I learnt was Pascal.  It\'s a very simple language to learn and it introduces you to the basics of programming.  But whatever you do, good luck.  I myself am going into Game Design/Programming given I graduate my Senior Year at High School....which isn\'t looking to good...anyway Good Luck and all.

[elminster]

Originally posted by rathma
learning c++ is the first step i should be taking, because right now i\'m in 8th grade and elementary school doesn\'t even teach you how to TURN ON a computer

Yes, learning C++ is the first step, IF you want to take part in the coding of the game. If you can draw really well, then it might be better to try something modeling. Then you don\'t need to learn C++ at all.

Something you should ALWAYS keep in mind: a game making is not only programming.
music + art + models + maps + *content* + *story* + *idea* = game
Oh, I forgot to mention: code

So you need to know what can you most excel in.

If you really feel, it is programming, then you are absolutely not late at all. As Acraig suggested, be satisfied with small programs first. Enjoy the feeling, that you will get, when you see something WORKING that is made by you. Even a simple for() loop which adds numbers can give this feeling to you at first. It will, trust me

Be patient. It is even possible, that you will never make a game (DONT PANIC), but while you learn, you find something, that really gets your attention, what you will really love to do (database programming, AI, web, etc.)

There are so many things. Everyone\'s dream is to \"make a game\". Even mine. I have been programming for 3 years and I always wanted to make a game. So far I did database programming, web programming (cgi, perl), I made a cellular automaton, but never so far a game. I don\'t even think I will ever get to start one...

You probably want to make a game, because it looks nice.
Well listen here: a game is not only nice 3D!
I still enjoy idea full old C64 games, sometimes better than todays\' \"bleeding edge 3D this and that\". I can tell you: 3D alone is bullshit - sorry. Content is much more important. Keep this in mind.
(Of course, when both are present, that\'s nearly a miracle - like PS

Good luck on your journey!

--
Greetings,
  E.

[paxx]

Not to change the tone or subject of this little thread?but another thing to take into account is ?the Game?.

Most games follow an ?if, then else? standard. If a happens then b happens else c happens. I would suggest while learning C++ or java or even excel you try and simulate a standard board game. A relatively simple game should suffice at first (simple is black jack). Then try loftier types of games such as risk. And by far the most complex games are your wonderful RPGs, many years ago a game combat game of chess came out (Arcana if memory serves) this was a simple game of chess, but each piece had stats, as they entered an opposing square they did really simple combat?the game was great fun.

After you learn how to make simplistic games like these?the next step is graphics. And in modern games this alone is an area where one person can not do it all. Most modern games include teams of well over 30 people (MMORPGs and such may have over 100s doing certain things). The goal for you is to find out what you like to do, and then go with it. Also there is a lot of place for simplistic games, cell phones and PDAs have opened the market once again for simple nice games. I recall there is a game that almost everyone with a PDA that I know had called drug dealer or some such name, the code was very good but simplistic, yet it was a great game, and I am sure if the creator wants it he can use it as a stepping stone to getting a job and budget for a better game.  

[Bigfoot]

Havent read the others posts so who knows might be repeating someone here.

Its good to see some one wanting to make a game, Unlike these others ill tell you its not as hard as they say, takes time however, and determination.  You dont realy need programming abilitie to start, if you have the artistic abilitie and know what your doing you can create enough work to get the attention of coders (if you know where to go to find them), there are a number (well actualy there are alot) of Free 2d game engines or construction kits on the web which can take the bite out of programming, some simple some very detailed, and most of these engines have there own small communities of artists and Coders.

by the way El, a coder is a programmer.

I began useing Verge2 then went to Sphere both excellent 2d RPG console engines (which can be programmed to do every thing from RPG\'s to Sidescroller, sphere even has Network abilitie and rudimentary 3D).

The Communities of the Verge and Sphere engines (their actualy very inter woven having members from both going back and forward) They are however getting pretty old now, ive been with them for along time, and alot of the old creative fire has run out.  Alot of the major projects have died or gone on to better things (one of the most promising has moved onto the GBA) and many of the artists have left (although they where in short supply to begin with.

You could try RPGmaker, if your going that way for a game, its very module orientated and you dont need much in the way of programming skills although artisticly its very limited in what you can do (also i think you have to buy it now?). I used to have a link to a site that had over 100, 2D engines. but its long since gone   .

Just remeber you dont have to be a coder to make a game, although knowing what aspects go into a game is, read up on the type of game you want to make and what things are expected and needed. If your neither an Artist or Coder then your game idea will have to be pretty interesting to get any attention from the people you\'d need.

My own project started 14 years ago, as a click and point adventure game programmed on my old mac in a programme called HypeCard (a graphical, very customizable database programme, perfect for a point and click, id explain further but those that have used it would know what i mean). 7 years later it had become a suedo Console style RPG with point and click interface, but then i got my first PC, and I started again as it went from point and Click to  a proper Console (SNES) style game, 6 years later im still going on it (mainly due to not having a fixed story line or design), and recently began again with the final release of my engine of choice, Sphere 1.0.

Best thing id say to you is, get a complete design draft done before you start anything, if not it will dog you down badly, ive learned that from experiance, but still havent applyed that lesson to my project (naughty me)  

Saying i have a idea for a great game and not showing anything for it, or not showing that you know what your doing, will get you some nasty responses or silence in reply at the very least.

And finaly start out small... even a simple Pong clone, r tetris rip off takes alot of work. just dont give in

[elminster]

Originally posted by Bigfoot
by the way El, a coder is a programmer.

Did I say, a coder is something else???

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E.