Laanx and the Winch?

[Shaman]

I'm trying to figure out why my character is unable to get access to the winch. He's done most of the required quests in "that area" (trying to do this without giving a spoiler >.>) except for two that involve Laanx. Since my character isn't a Laanx follower, I thought it would be appropriate to NOT do these quests. However, since I'm unable to get winch access, I'm curious to know if these quests are needed in order to get it?

If so, why? That pigeonholes people into the Laanx religion by having them take on an entire atonement ceremony, and bring someone back into the faith, which makes me feel like I'd be better off doing the "other" winch access quest as opposed to being pigeonholed into a religion that doesn't fit my character.

However, if there's simple some sort of "cooldown" on the winch access quest, I can live with that.

[zanzibar]

You might have a hard choice between staying in character and accessing the Winch.  I'm ashamed to say that I'd go out of character to access the Winch area, since so many quests and skills depend on access to it.

[nedoko]

My suggestion is you try the other way of winch access. It involves talking with a priest of laanx (one in particular) but you wont really be worshiping laanx.

[khoridor]

Yet Shaman is right: the most honest characters are the most likely to not be found trustworthy.
Since there's no need to alter the current quests (they do make sense after all), the solution lies in new ones, starting from other important characters and probably from other towns.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

We have provided many ways to get in.

Increasingly the system will KEEP you honest because more advanced quests track your questing history.

Oh yes, your choices will have consequences.

[zanzibar]

We have provided many ways to get in.

Increasingly the system will KEEP you honest because more advanced quests track your questing history.

Oh yes, your choices will have consequences.

This guarantees that no one player will personally experience all of the game content, guaranteeing that everyone's game experience is unique.

But "Your choices will have consequences" isn't the whole truth.  Two characters might do the same thing for entirely different reasons.  But the game can't check for your motives, it just assumes that they're X or Y, and changes your reputations accordingly.

Plus there's the question of why character A automatically knows of the job you did for character B.

In the end it makes sense though, and I think it was a positive addition to the game.

[Zontick]

Dunno about Laanx, about merchants, about whatever...

What I do know is that soon, to advance, I'll likely need to go to the Winch. There are no trainers for my stats at this point.

Roleplay. Quests. Sure, I get this. To a point, I enjoy this. The point where I don't enjoy this involves my character poking and prodding a system in very out of character ways to move kranself forward. Sure, kran did some Laanx things. Kran also accepted a quest from the Dark Side, apparently, but didn't finish it because once started the truth of it became fairly apparent. Or maybe not. Or maybe. Or maybe not. Or maybe. Or maybe not.

Point is that if, to advance, one has to stand on one's head - so be it. If one has to run from one part of the world to the distal opposite, you do it - with a /die in the middle sometimes because the run is no longer fun, looking for beasties around the corner and knowing that you're vulnerable.

Obviously I've heard of the Winch. And I didn't hear it from an NPC. But I did hear that I would have to get there to maximize my character's potential. And it is apparent that if one joins a guild, it becomes so much simpler to get access to the Winch. The logical conclusion is that guilds are sharing information, which they should, but it also means that some people are allowed to be twinked while others aren't - based on what amounts to a few lucky guesses by a few lucky people. And this, at least to me, colors most people with this mystical access as twinks.

Some probably aren't. Some likely deserve it. We can hope, perhaps, that the majority of people with access deserve it - but there will always be a doubt when we see someone with maxed stats beyond the training abilities outside of the mysterious winch. And this means that people who are really interested will reroll a character and try again. Others will do what it takes to gain that information - be it to join a guild temporarily or permanently, bribe someone with trias or even - and this is not unknown to happen in MMORPGs - PayPal.

Twinks. Cheats. Spoilers-for-a-fee. It's been done before, it will be done again, and no amount of code will keep it from happening. Enough cognitive dissonance means inductive kick. In a way, it's flattering to the developers that they created something so mysterious that people would be willing to pay for the information. Isn't it? Or is it? I don't know. Many ways to look at the same thing.

I do not know how to gain access to the Winch. Maybe one day the answer will fall from on high. Maybe it won't matter for me. And what this issue forces people into is deciding whether the investment in their character(s) has been worth it.

Maybe if I kill enough Ulbernauts, I'll get access to the Winch. Or maybe it's the clackers! Maybe they drop the keys to the Winch. Or could it be a Rogue? Maybe the Maulbernauts. Maybe by digging ore out of the ground I'll come across a secret key that gives access hidden in the ore - something found when I drop it in the furnace. Or maybe the key is using my rockpick on the doorway of the Winch (wherever it is - I'm not even sure!). Maybe Brado will call me over for no reason and drop the key in the bottom of some beer that kran doesn't drink.

The Universe makes no sense. In MMORPGs, this is doubly so. 

Or maybe I'll just never see it. This is likely the case.

Some people are whining, some are more constructive (I've been reading the forums), the developers/admin have engaged and they have spoken their thoughts on how things are planned to work in the future. And that's cool.

 So here's my question to the folks running things, asked with complete ambivalence: How do you think I should feel about the fact that I may never get into this super-uber-duper place? How should a player feel about it?

I'm not sure. But I'll play until I stop having fun. When I stop having fun, I stop playing. Perhaps I am a minority. I am, after all, a guild of one. To which guild should I have to sell my character's soul? I think none.

So I dunno. I obviously searched on the forums, mainly to see if I hosed something up somewhere or missed something. There are some older quests I haven't completed, so I'll tinker with them at some point.

There is one quest where I was told I failed. And I consider this now: Is PlaneShift a PASS/FAIL?

Anyway. Those are my thoughts on this whole thing. Take them or leave them. Love them or hate me, but spare me the indifference. I get enough of that from NPCs.

[zanzibar]

The Winch is only important if you care about leveling.  Leveling isn't important if you care about role playing.

You need the Winch in order to use magic, but magic isn't in game yet in any useful form.

So you aren't missing anything.  Right?

[Zontick]

The Winch is only important if you care about leveling.  Leveling isn't important if you care about role playing.

You need the Winch in order to use magic, but magic isn't in game yet in any useful form.

So you aren't missing anything.  Right?

Oh, I see what you mean. It's Either/Or. I can't level if I roleplay. And I can't roleplay if I level? But to level, I need to roleplay - but the role I play is not chosen by myself but by arbitrary pathways created by others.

Am I missing anything?

I'd thought I could roleplay and level. At the same time. I mean... maybe I'm being silly, but part of playing a game is progressing. How do we mark progress? Some do this with possessions. Some do this with expanding their abilities. But how does someone who roleplays progress? I would think through both.

But then again, I might be silly. 

Thing is... this is a beta. And speaking frankly, it's a darned good beta. I'm honestly impressed. Seriously. But it could be better. And this Winch hijinx seems to be something that might make it lean the other way if handled the wrong way. As a beta tester - not just a user/gameplayer - I'm enjoying this so far. During all of this I actually figured out another quest, it seems (one of the neverending sorts). But here's the thing - this is a lot like pathway testing on code.

Likely I'll end up downloading the code for PS at some point and looking it over, perhaps even tweaking myself. But I shouldn't have to do that to figure out how to advance a character so I can continue role playing.

So perhaps I am missing something. Right? 

[hitancrias]

@Zontic: I think it's possible to get into the winch without joining a guild. Just find out who have winch access and keep patiently asking them for help while in game. There are players who share information. You might have to offer tria for good information, it's part of the game, it's not immoral.  On the other hand, why not join a guild and leave it after they helped you? It's perfectly okay to have a character who behaves pragmatically. Accept that Planeshift is a game where nobody can figure everything out by himself, so try to get info from other players. Don't wait for a miracle that gives you winch access. It won't happen.

Good luck

[peeg]

There is also a lot of ingame info concerning the winch and how to gain access... maybe read some books? 

[Zontick]

There is also a lot of ingame info concerning the winch and how to gain access... maybe read some books? 

This isn't an 'about me' issue, but thanks for preaching literacy at me. 

[Zontick]

@Zontic: I think it's possible to get into the winch without joining a guild. Just find out who have winch access and keep patiently asking them for help while in game. There are players who share information. You might have to offer tria for good information, it's part of the game, it's not immoral.  On the other hand, why not join a guild and leave it after they helped you? It's perfectly okay to have a character who behaves pragmatically. Accept that Planeshift is a game where nobody can figure everything out by himself, so try to get info from other players. Don't wait for a miracle that gives you winch access. It won't happen.

Well, at least we know that there are people out there who are equal opportunity about selling spoilers. Guilds can give them for free. I suppose the Dark Way path could allow one to bribe for spoilers. Nothing like rewarding negative behavior... 

I sincerely wonder if this is what the developers were thinking of when they made the access as it is now (or better, how it isn't).

As I said, it doesn't matter to me. But it is interesting for me to read the responses to it. Very interesting. Thanks. 

[Prolix]

What I'd really like to know is whether the only way into the winch (at the moment) is through the gate, however you get the key. If so it would be fair to say that there was only one way into the winch although there are several ways to gain access to that one way in.