Jumping Skill

[Sakiro A.]

Perhaps, but jumping roof tops is hardly the entire point

[elrecurso]

It could have lands where the floor was sticky.

You could come closer to the border the most possible thing without falling and later to jump.

People with more lag could jump equally.

It doesn\'t depend alone of the far or high that jump, it is also important to choose the place with less distance.

Careers of jumps could be made among roofs or among stone columns.

[beza1e1]

jumping the roof tops is an issue for thiefs. For fighter it could be useful in dungeons/adventures. Wizards probably should learn levitation.

This race segregation leads to another topic ... i\'ll make a thread

[SpeedKilled]

There is a way to change your controls.  In the main planeshift directory there is a file called keys.xml and if you change that, you can change the controls.  I changed my controls so that q is mouselook and f is view mode so I can quickly \"use\" my mouse.

[logan_dugenoux]

Jumping is also a problem for developers because it allows to do things that are not possible.
For example, if a quest is to go into a dungeon tower and bring back something and the harder part is to get the key to the door, and some players/races can jump directly into the tower because the jump very high, it is quite unfair.
People can go in areas that should be restricted (ie a garden with walls and locked door), etc...

So it\'s harder to create world, quests...

[beza1e1]

Just two words: why not?

This is what they learn the skill for

[logan_dugenoux]

if you are a game creator the you\'ll understand what im taking about... the main problem when you create a quest for example, is that people follow a similar way to solve it. I agree that jumping is nice for combats (because some will improve jump where others will improve sword), but it can cause headaches to the game developpers.
In the town actually, you can jump over some walls to go outside the city, even if the door were closed. Because graphists only thought of the \"visual\" aspect of the wall. If everybody can jump higher and higher, you can go over rivers, without bridges, etc...
Try to imagine the number of possibilities \"quest developpers\" and \"story developpers\" have to think about.

[beza1e1]

There will always be possibilites like that. You could also climb over the wall, you can swim through the river, Nolthrir can dive through ... Jumping is just another one. If you want to abandon funny things just to make it easy for the level designers, i\'d say this is not the right track.

I can agree that jumping over walls is not good, i think most player would be confused, but jumping from roof top to roof top should be possible. And from the roof top over the wall, will be a possibility.

[hook]

i\'m a bit stuck here ...i can\'t decide who is more right logan_dugenoux
or beza1e1 ...both have a good point ...i think the devs would have to have a serious talk about this jumping idea, before deciding to (no) implement it

[OT]
does it still censure assembling? :]
[edit] oh, look, they fixed it [/edit]
[/OT]

[beza1e1]

Hm difficult topic, i got another idea, after i read the falling damage thread ... Why not implementing the jumping skill as skill on the length you can jump instead of the height?
So the problem with falling damage disappears, because you will not get that high and you can\'t jump over houses and walls, but from one roof top to another.

You can still jump over rovers though.

[Thynett]

To my mind all characters, even the fattest merchant, must be able to jump/climb/fight. The only thing is that your fat merchant will jump 1 foot high, climb as slow as a snail and have a ridiculous stamina bar.


That is why I would include jumping, climbing and stamina (and maybe more) in a single \"athletics skill\". This skill would be relevant of how healthy your character is. It would increase when you do anything sporty (running, climbing, jumping...) We could even imagine that it would slowly decrease when doing nothing at all...


Then it would be combined with you stats for different actions :
- athletics+endurance => stamina bar
- athletics+agility+strength => climbing
- athletics+agility+will => jumping
- athletics+agility+endurance => falling damage
etc...


and then jumping and climbing would be influenced as described above : it would also depend on your race the weight you are carrying...


There is also that problem that players might want to jump over walls... Then jumping must be limited : max 3m high and 8m long or something like that, when carrying very little weight of course (which is already HUGE when you think about whan our best modern athletes can do)




NOTE : I thought first that this athletic skill could also increase when fighting. As a matter of fact, fighting is tiring, makes you sweat, and probably maes you more sporty. However the possibilities that are linked with an \"athletic skill\" have nothing to do with fighting. Furthermore what would you think of a warrior that only killed mobs to increase his skills, and suddenly becomes a great climber/jumper ? That would be realy unfair cause he would be good at all disciplines, whereas the idea of the athletic skill is to make alternatives to frontal fighting.

[Ravencrowe]

Super-jumping would be cool, just think of Final Fantasy dragoons/lancers.  These people could jump in the air and remain unseen for a really long time, and then finally come down doing major damage with their spear.  This would be a bit silly in a 3D online game, so I could see why nothing like this has ever been imitated.  But maybe there could be some kind of a jump-attack skill where you jump off an edge into an enemy and do damage related to fall damage.

[paxx]

Ok, I dare enter this thread simply for curiosity.

I have not read the entire thread so if my questions have been answered please say so.

What does the jumping skill give you?
More height?  Better accuracy? More length? (man that can be so changed around to mean something else)

Does it deserve to be a skill? Should you have 200+ variations of how well you jump? Would it be better treated as a special ability? Where you purchase high jump 1-20 long jump 1-25 and you are done?

My problem with jump is that unlike some other movement skills?it is not really usefull, and I would hate for people to complain later that they spent points in a truly useless skill.

I mean when you climb it is to get somewhere that is difficult or advantageous to you, same with jumping, but if a mage type can simply cast a spell and get you there, what is the point?

We are avoiding any move type skills per say. Jumping, swimming, flying, running will all probably end up as some type of special ability as opposed to a skill, to you it may mean the same thing but in how you attain the ability is different.

But back to jumping.

What should it do, why is it needed? And what if some people have it and others don?t how useful is it in your party. Is it just a midpoint of climb and flight?

If it costs you 2000 exp to increase your jump 1 meter or make your running more efficient for fatigue by 5%, what would you rather have?

Should we make jumping something where you target the ground and jump there? Or dependant on skills and Wt. you just jump a certain distance?

All in all I see jumping as a poor skill, it can add a lot in some areas but it can make combat really annoying. My target jumps to the balcony, I move there?he jumps again?or melee types Vs Caster types will really hate life.

How fast should jumping be? Same as running or a lot slower as it is in real life?until you are falling.

How should this play into a safe fall type skill?

In the end if it is well balanced it becomes useless, if it is not it makes the game about jumping all over the place. And not to mention it makes constructing defences and this 3D models really odd, cause the engineers will take into account that people can jump this so lets make it wider/higher/spiked?or impossible to get to through jumping.

Now while I am not dismissing it completely I am not sure of it?s value?can I jump if I am weighted down, how does it affect my distances?

Do we want matrix distance jumping (semi-flight) or more in line with Olympic distances? Is the jumper really vulnerable while jumping as he is in real life or is he at full combat readiness?

As I stated prior?it is a possibility, but I don?t really see that it addition is cool enough to justify all the additional issues that come up with it?

But please continue discussing this concept.

[beza1e1]

Paxx added some important arguments ...

I think the main problem is the jumping high issue. Jumpers can avoid fighting by jumping in balconies and roof tops. This is pretty annoying for the sword fighters.

As the Olypmic vs Matrix jumping, i think more about the Halflife way, where you can jump rather realistic and with the jump pack you can jump over a pretty distance, but only as high as before. This style would fit for some races i think. The dodging in UT is also a nice concept.

If i think about the jumping around in CounterStrike, i think they found a good solution now. After a jump you are stopped for one second or less.

The precise jumping to a point ability is also a nice suggestion. It would help in dungeons and similir wierd places, but it is rather annoying in a fight.

[paxx]

I think comparing this to UT/Counterstrike is bad because we are not a real time FPS this game will be a real time RPG but the player will not have control of every aspect of the character?the character avoids the hits not the player, the character chooses when to strike, the player just chooses when to attack and how to do it, with what ferocity.

So remember these little but important aspects when wishing for something.