Godmodding GMs!

[playbetter]

Ok. Godmod me.

     At least let me know what is going on and give me a chance to  respond if I want to be involved first though. I did get caught in an "event" that irritated me. I had a graphics error when I logged in and was killed in an ulbernaut raid on the plat mine that was in progress when I logged in. I must say though that I complained in /tell to a GM and whoever it was was nice enough to help me back out of DR and back to the area. Incidentally, I was only there for training and ran down out of Gug before logging off. Still managed to get caught up in the raid though. Later on I returned to the area and was killed by an ulbernaut while trying to defend the miners. I was not bothered by that due to actually having participated in it, and that was just the result.

     The point of all this is to say The powers when used correctly are good. As long as consideration is used and maybe a bit of notification (eg. "XXXXX /tells you can we tie you up for 20 minutes for this event?) It is a good thing. And just like RL there are consequences, some good and some bad. Common sense is what is needed. Not more regulation. The only problem is when people have different ideas of common sense.

     Oh and let me say also, Thank you GM's for a thankless and annoying job. I would not do it if you paid me. You have my respect.

[Dajoji]

The question is: is it really godmodding if a GM can actually use mechanics to do the things players can only RP-pretend and if said actions are done within a context fitting within settings?

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Every gm began as a player, every gm knows what it is like to participate as players in gm events.

Players and gms have distinct access for clear reasons.

Please everyone, make an effort to discuss this topic nicely or you'll find it locked very fast.

Dajoji is making a good faith effort to garner some feedback and improve the gaming experience, if I see this get out of hand I'll godmod this into a locked thread right quick for you.

[StitchedChin]

Ah okay, I think I understand the question now.  I'm fine with GM and Dev characters being the most powerful in the game, using huge levels of the current skill sets or using the GM codes to try to mimic the possible future settings.  Examples would be a bit easier to figure out and discuss, but I know things like morphing, levitation, teleportation, etc. are going to be in game, so GMs using those seems cool to me.  This line gets a bit blurred for players that don't know the full possibility of settings though, so right now it seems GMs can do whatever they want.  Laws of whatever universe this is still need to be obeyed, even for gods...

[verden]

Well, my question is: how do players feel about us having "the upper hand"? Do you consider that godmodding? If it is, is it the same as when a player does it? What would you find acceptable and what would be going too far? Do you think there's a better way?

Of course you have an upper-hand. I do not consider it "god-modding" if it is a GM doing it. But, still ... discretion is the better part of valor.

[Raekh]

GMs godmodding or not certainly is a difficult topic. During that "Levitation" event of Dajoji's my char (and few others) was lifted high above ground. It all perfectly fit into a storyline, I could not but had to praise. GMs "godmodding" can be most pleasant!
On the other hand, once my dermorian, accompanied by an ynnwn fighter, was approached by one dwarven woman right outside the Hydlaa gates, and more or less bluntly was asked if they were good or bad. Shady, but good to their heart, they let the woman hear what she wanted, that they were evil beings, so they could join that lady, intending to set a trap on her (were we lower beings allowed to dare?=P). Having been lead into the wilds, they opposed that lady. The woman then drew a whip to tie my char all of a sudden (he was "frozen"), the ynnwn company tried to free him by cutting the whip, and the GM player told us the whip was not to be cut since it is magical, leaving not a chance to counter the attack. Furthermore the lady said she will kill my char instantly in case the ynnwn would attempt once more to free him, or kill the other one.
I logged off due to severe flaws in my eyes.
The latter example once more showed to me that GM events are plotted and figured out unflexibly. Fit in, or be godmodded out of it.

GMs can godmod to give the current settings meaning, and I do like it! But what is crucial in my eyes, is, to always give the player a chance to avoid attacks or whatever approach, and by no means godmod the way to override any further player intervention. From my experience having partaken, or at least eye-witnessed, quite a few events I can not say this was always the case, but more appeared like "the almighty GMs" are testing their playgrounds to their limits, not giving a shed on players.

Since that latter GM event I never fancied to join any anymore.
So if you GMs are about to bring up some stuff, and grant freedom to the players to some degree to join or deny, be free in time and mind to modify your plot the same way.
Otherwise "godmodding GMs" will remain the same to me: People having a plot on their mind that will be forced upon players by all means. Unfair and not tolerable.

[zanzibar]

Otherwise "godmodding GMs" will remain the same to me: People having a plot on their mind that will be forced upon players by all means. Unfair and not tolerable.

But entirely realistic, and therefore fair.

Perhaps a godmodding GM is a GM who prevents players from godmodding?

[Rennaj]

 Having been a GM and written some events that have been done in game, I can assure you most of them are very lose as to how it ends, by that I mean it is up to the players how the event plays out. The exceptions being a Settings special event to mark something, therefore it must have a set end in most cases.
  GMs are very much held accountable as to way they behave in game, and all events are cleared through Talad before the ok is given to do them.
 As for the question of God modding, Sometimes it is executable, but is normally done with the players consent, If a player does not like what is going on to him/her, they can always ask the GM to stop, If they do not report it, simple.
Now some of you have mentioned super stats, GMs need them for events, One event I was in with 400 for all stats/skills, I lasted a few seconds in a fight, as there was so many players attacking me, so you now see why they need super stats to last longer in a fight to make it look more real.

 That was slightly of topic, but was to clear up a few miss conceptions.

[zanzibar]

Having been a GM and written some events that have been done in game, I can assure you most of them are very lose as to how it ends, by that I mean it is up to the players how the event plays out. The exceptions being a Settings special event to mark something, therefore it must have a set end in most cases.

That's great to hear!  Do all GMs have the same writing style?

GMs are very much held accountable as to way they behave in game, and all events are cleared through Talad before the ok is given to do them.
 As for the question of God modding, Sometimes it is executable, but is normally done with the players consent, If a player does not like what is going on to him/her, they can always ask the GM to stop, If they do not report it, simple.

How is consent obtained?  Do most players know they have the right to challenge a GM?

Now some of you have mentioned super stats, GMs need them for events, One event I was in with 400 for all stats/skills, I lasted a few seconds in a fight, as there was so many players attacking me, so you now see why they need super stats to last longer in a fight to make it look more real.

I agree.  Unrealistically strong players need unrealistically strong foes.

[Caarrie]

Having been a GM and written some events that have been done in game, I can assure you most of them are very lose as to how it ends, by that I mean it is up to the players how the event plays out. The exceptions being a Settings special event to mark something, therefore it must have a set end in most cases.

That's great to hear!  Do all GMs have the same writing style?

This opened ended type of event is how ALL gm EVENTS are written.
The GMs are given a template for how all gm events are to be planed out and this must be followed in order for it to have a chance to be approved.

GMs are very much held accountable as to way they behave in game, and all events are cleared through Talad before the ok is given to do them.
 As for the question of God modding, Sometimes it is executable, but is normally done with the players consent, If a player does not like what is going on to him/her, they can always ask the GM to stop, If they do not report it, simple.

How is consent obtained? 

For a gm to get their event approved they have to show it to talad on irc, email or any other way they have been given to contact him.

[zanzibar]

Having been a GM and written some events that have been done in game, I can assure you most of them are very lose as to how it ends, by that I mean it is up to the players how the event plays out. The exceptions being a Settings special event to mark something, therefore it must have a set end in most cases.

That's great to hear!  Do all GMs have the same writing style?

This opened ended type of event is how ALL gm EVENTS are written.
The GMs are given a template for how all gm events are to be planed out and this must be followed in order for it to have a chance to be approved.

Neat!

GMs are very much held accountable as to way they behave in game, and all events are cleared through Talad before the ok is given to do them.
 As for the question of God modding, Sometimes it is executable, but is normally done with the players consent, If a player does not like what is going on to him/her, they can always ask the GM to stop, If they do not report it, simple.

How is consent obtained? 

For a gm to get their event approved they have to show it to talad on irc, email or any other way they have been given to contact him.

I meant consent from the players being acted upon.  (Janner said such things are "done with the players consent.")

[Rennaj]

 Depends on the type of action, sometimes a player will be asked if he/she minds, as some might if no talk is entered into can be seen as being mean.

[zanzibar]

Depends on the type of action, sometimes a player will be asked if he/she minds, as some might if no talk is entered into can be seen as being mean.

Ok, but how is consent usually obtained?

[LigH]

Do I feel godmodded by a GM who has more features available?

Only if he forces my play into a specific direction, no matter what my own opinion is.

Not if he only guides the roleplay and fills it with atmosphere.

I can still remember a specific event where we helped an unusual couple getting required ingredients for a meal, and should get "rewarded" with a banquet of even more strange food. Well ... we all totally misunderstood the intentions, I guess. As strange everything looked, as much we played that it still tastes well. GMs could have forced us into understanding that the meals were instead horrible...

The only thing I am not yet too convinced about is, if those GMs who play guards really should stick as much to the written law and given orders as wearing blinkers on their brains...

[Dajoji]

Given a certain situation in an event, like being attacked by a mob while mining. Is that realistic or godmodding? Is it forcing players to RP (in terms of acknowledging the fact that there are wild beasts that could attack you on sight) or should they expect that kind of thing?

What about other things ingame that players might be oblivious about like the laws, for example. Is it really godmodding if a guard "forces" you to obey the law or is that an IC behavior players should have?

In other words, in all these situations, we sometimes face the decision of whether or not making players understand that there is a context in which realistically, they can't just do anything they want and expect it to be IC, like casting spells that do not exist, or walk through another person, or log out and relog, etc. In other words, things that we could consider questionable as good RP. At the moment, we don't force it or at least try not to unless the person becomes disruptive and it's not a matter of RP anymore but appropriate player behavior.

Like LigH stated above, we normally throw information at players and they are free to do as they please. Should they? Should we let them know OOCly that they are not using the information right? Should we police RP that way or will that take out all the fun from the game?

Ideally, in these situations we will convey our messages in a way that is not imposing yet clear enough. Sometimes, it can't happen that way and we need to adjust so that one player alone doesn't cut everyone else from the event, and that's something I've mentioned before regarding events: if you want the event to move down a certain path, you have to make the party agree to it first. Expect to be ignored if you leave the group behind.

Anyway, as GMs we often have to deal with contradictory requests from players. Do this, don't do this, do that, don't do that. We can't satisfy everyone but maybe if we, as a community, look at the things GMs are asked to do, we will learn that not everything can be done to fix something without completely ruining the game for someone else in a different level.

So now I have a different question: is it godmodding if a GM tells you how to RP something so it is accurate with the IC context you're in as well as the game settings?