Author Topic: PVP As RP  (Read 8429 times)

Xillix Queen of Fools

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PVP As RP
« on: May 12, 2009, 07:42:30 pm »
How can pvp be roleplay?  What effect does Pvp have on roleplay? How does planeshift RP on Laanx effect pvp positively and negatively? What part should pvp play in roleplay?

Discuss.

weltall

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2009, 07:43:37 pm »
if pvp is just roleplayed it must be based, imho, on real skills in the character no fireball trowing characters with 0 in red way thanks :D
I'm perfectly ok with pvp based on game mechanics (although it should be improved in order to base less on ping, lag and timing).
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 07:51:51 pm by weltall »

carua

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2009, 08:00:10 pm »
I agree with The Dev ^^
Even from an IC point of view the levels you've trained reflect the training the character has gone through
and so has earned their right  to Pwn teh n00bz

Donari Tyndale

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2009, 08:01:51 pm »
Pvp can enable totally new possibilities for RP, which is why I second open pvp. Beware, oh greedy merchant! You might be killed in your sleep ;). Pvp should play a major part in roleplay, as one must always be aware of possible consequences. You can't kill someone and then decline his challenges. I would like to see open pvp everywhere in PS 1.0. However, such a thing requires a fundamental change of the current system, further away from the "my stats are maxed, you noob can't even harm me" concept. I think that even a noob should have a chance to slay a powerful warrior. After all, the noob can have luck. Currently, this is impossible and pretty unrealistic. Look at RL, even I could kill Arnold Schwarzenegger :P. If combat was more risky and the gap between maxed and noob smaller, then people would think twice before randomly killing others and furthermore they would need to cooperate in order to be successful, which generates RP. A revolt against the Octarchy? Sure, everyone can take part!

Illysia

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2009, 09:18:45 pm »
I think if open PvP were established there should still be game mechanics limits on dueling in the city as invariably some people would be dueling everywhere and causing a ruckus for RP. But outside of cities where there are no guards, sure. Players can have the same rights as the ulbers to just walk up to you and take off your head.

However, if open PvP were allowed there would have to be limits on how much you can level in a day as it would be unfair not to do so. People who can spend all day, many days of the week or some such thing, in game would have a huge unfair advantage over people who can only play for a few hours here and there. That in turn could cause people who play only a little to focus on leveling so they can bridge the gap.

zanzibar

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2009, 09:23:24 pm »
Simple answer:  PvP and other forms of combat can be a part of roleplay because roleplay includes all actions your character would take given his or her situation.

Problems can happen when different cultures develop around PvP.  Some players are drawn to PvP because they enjoy experiencing feelings of power over other players.  Some players enjoy using PvP as a competitive test of OOC skill.  Some players enjoy using PvP to harass players they have OOC differences with.  Some players want to increase their own status (aka "being number one in the server"), and use(d) duel points or OOC reputation vis PvP successes as one way of gaining such status.

PvP is not inherently bad though.
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Rigwyn

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2009, 11:26:08 pm »

Whether or not pvp can be integrated with rp depends on the player I think. I recently got involved in a short rp that started out as an rp, switched to a duel and back to an rp. We were interested in forming a story so killing wasn't really a consideration as it would have ended the story prematurely.

I think putting a pvp zone ( say a 50 meter wide strip ) between towns - and between mines and furnaces ( so that your forced to pass though it to get to the next town or furnace ) would make travel a little more challenging/dangerous but not impossible. As a result bandits would have an opportunity to harass, goods/heroes would be in demand etc..  I think this could be a good thing if done well/thoughtfully. Just my two tria...

zoran

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 12:26:23 am »
PvP is an interesting mechanic for roleplay because it puts restraints on how your character acts and what he can do - restraints help to shape and define the character. In pure consensual text-based RP, involved players might interpret the outcome of an action differently on both sides, or they might go for an outcome that is not fitting optimally from their point of view to avoid frustrating the other player, or they might just disengage from the RP altogether if it doesn't come to a conclusion they will accept. PvP is a neutral arbiter that cannot really be misinterpreted, and helps to shape a common "reality" for all involved parties.

As a relatively new player, I find the etiquette around PvP a bit confusing or intimidating. I've been asked before to a battle, and declined because that's what my character would have done in that situation, but it felt less than satisfying than just being forced to fight in that instant (and there was still the nagging thought that not dying was more convenient for me as a player in that situation).

I would like to see more PvP possibilities (and less possibilities to avoid it), with perhaps different ways to "back out" of PvP in certain areas - such as surrendering to being looted of one non-quest item instead of dying (and gaining immunity from such PvP challenge for some time in turn), or perhaps the attacker himself being unable to avoid confrontations even in non-PvP areas for some time if initiating PvP.

It's also easy to imagine how unhindered PvP can motivate some players to play for PvP-centric dominance in some areas at great cost to new players. Perhaps new characters could group together and get an NPC guard escort to help them move along in the early stages to combat this (two travellers per guard minimum, the total level average may not exceed a certain amount).

It is clear that one's PvP behaviour (if not based on consent/challenge) must have consequences after the event. For instance, walking along your victims on market day in Hydlaa in plain sight is suspending belief and should be seen as bad RP (unless the killer was cloaked etc). It should be possible to track killings that weren't challenged (and for the victim to choose to forget them if he thinks the killer was cloaked), and if a certain number of recent victims are present, remove the PvP challenge protecting from the killer (and let the guards have some aggro, in extreme cases). After all, a single accusation might not count for much, but a number of victims with matching accusations will be very different.

Dalgin Xawanda

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 12:32:50 am »
The only problem I can see with PvP and role-play is that, you usually know who's gonna win.  But sometimes, that's ok.  Sometimes, the other RPer and I have an idea of who's supposed to "win," and the fun is what happens before that.  So, if the other person is supposed to "win" and he is much stronger than I, we could have  PvP, and afterward, I would justify that fight by RPing my wounds.  If the "weaker" player is supposed to win, have a RP fight.  If you have no idea and want it to be exciting, have a RP fight with dice.

Tuxide

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2009, 01:29:12 am »
Are we assuming just PvP or PvP with looting?  PvP without serious consequences will lead to gankers.

Show me an open PvP game or shard, with or without looting, where RP is enforced.

Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2009, 02:09:29 am »
It doesn't exist. They enforce names on the rp shard of aoc that's it.

Nykolai Raskaniov

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2009, 01:39:45 pm »
How can pvp be roleplay?

1. All you need to do is talk or use /me commands before you engage in a fight, create a setting for the combat, and you're using PVP in a role playing context.  Strangely enough, its current usage in this context is rather low because some folks simply do not RP, only use game mechanics. Using game mechanics is part of the game, yes, but it is not RP in itself. This kind of usage is perfectly okay on the Non-RP server, but not so okay on the RP server.

What effect does Pvp have on roleplay?

2. It can be a catalyst for RP but at the same time it can also be a deterrent. Why? I have absolutely no idea. I can think of a bazillion ways how PVP can stimulate and generate roleplay activities but cannot image why it is so rarely used this way. I blame mainstream games. This is how people were "educated" to play.

How does planeshift RP on Laanx effect pvp positively and negatively?

3. RP on Laanx affects PVP mostly in a positive manner because it uses the game mechanics as part of the story, as a whole. I can't think of any negative impact at this time.

What part should pvp play in roleplay?

4. It should always be part of any roleplay activity where fighting/wars/violence is involved.


I for one support full PVP outside the cities, and maintain the current system (challenge) within city limits. Players with, say, less than 30 hrs in game would not be affected by full PVP outside cities, to help them get to know the game better before.

A ++ to what weltall said.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 01:42:14 pm by Nykolai Raskaniov »
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Mordraugion

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2009, 04:44:05 pm »
As one who has throughtout his 4+ years in PS favoured RP'ed combat and avoided PvP, mainly because it is too dependent on the Players skill much more so than on the Characters skill levels, less so now but previously was all a matter of button mashing at the right time.

PvP should be an integral part of roleplay as normal as walking, running or sitting imho eventually we should have open PvP everywhere including in Hydlaa etc. and not to have it monitored by an OOC server rule but instead by the Guards and more natural IC means (yes I know this means we need more GM's or to at sometime recruit players to fulfil the roles).
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verden

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2009, 06:29:08 pm »
I know that the team is considering ways to balance open PVP on the system. I do agree with Mordraugion that open PVP will be be the best choice when it comes to "realism" in the world. But I do not think that open PVP should be enabled system wide until after all other subsystems are balanced and finished. I really do not think that the game will be helped by doing this anytime soon. If it is decided upon doing so, I would recommend open PVP only after certain levels in certains skills are achieved. Or after the completion of certain quests.

Vannaka

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Re: PVP As RP
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2009, 07:06:48 pm »
The way I see it (and this is only my opinion, don't hate me) one of the only reasons to choose a "RP fight" over a /challenge is to give the weaker character an equal chance of winning.  To me, I guess that makes the majority of fights that don't use mechanics OOC.  However in the tavern or around the city, if you /challenge someone you get yelled at in all this [brackety garbage] that fighting in the city is OOC, and sometimes you even get reported for it (which I still don't understand).  But for some reason, about every other time I walk into the tavern there are people running around saying /me stabs you and /me casts a magic kill-everyone spell.  Nobody yells at these people at all.  To me it's the same thing, and it's the negative view of PvP fighting that will be more of a problem than the PvP fighting itself.

Open PvP in the wilderness would be okay for me, but maybe we'd have to have safe areas around the loading zones, where all the traffic between cities has to funnel through.  As for open PvP in cities, it would be most realistic, but since we don't have realistic city guards I can't see any way it would work.  Also, I think before there is any more open PvP there are some PvP bugs that should be fixed, and maybe some potion issues as well.
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