Relative Stats

[Bguy]

     A problem with the current stat system is that, since the stats are based on constants, their is too little relativity given between quantity (the stats) and quality (how strong the character should be while RPing) . For example, would a person with 200 Strength be considered pretty strong if more than half of PlaneShift was maxed out? Since there is almost no way to figure out how your stats are relative to the masses, it is easy to accidentally god-mod (by claiming to be more extraordinary than you are) or over-weaken your character. This is one of the many struggles between  rp and mechanics that should be sorted out.
     Instead of remaking the entire system to create self-averaging stats (so that the mean of all stats is always 100), a much simpler solution would be to just post an updating section on the site that displays the average of stats (and possibly skills as well). This will not interfere with the current mechanics, and allow players to have a relative point for players to work with. Also, if averages can be put on the site, no doubt outlier numbers and maybe even a bell curve for each stat. Also, having this information online would be interesting to look at over time, seeing how the averages rise (with training) and fall (with new members). If it isn't too much of a struggle to record stats as deaths and value of sold goods are, it would be very helpful to have.

[kiou]

this is a sexy idea, some way for us to continue combining game and rp, while staying fair.

ye posting the average online would be cool, but as usual *insert dead horse* i think peoples stats should be determined by their skills and have caps that are unique to each player.....

right so, great idea

[weltall]

     A problem with the current stat system is that, since the stats are based on constants, their is too little relativity given between quantity (the stats) and quality (how strong the character should be while RPing) . For example, would a person with 200 Strength be considered pretty strong if more than half of PlaneShift was maxed out? Since there is almost no way to figure out how your stats are relative to the masses, it is easy to accidentally god-mod (by claiming to be more extraordinary than you are) or over-weaken your character. This is one of the many struggles between  rp and mechanics that should be sorted out.
     Instead of remaking the entire system to create self-averaging stats (so that the mean of all stats is always 100), a much simpler solution would be to just post an updating section on the site that displays the average of stats (and possibly skills as well). This will not interfere with the current mechanics, and allow players to have a relative point for players to work with. Also, if averages can be put on the site, no doubt outlier numbers and maybe even a bell curve for each stat. Also, having this information online would be interesting to look at over time, seeing how the averages rise (with training) and fall (with new members). If it isn't too much of a struggle to record stats as deaths and value of sold goods are, it would be very helpful to have.

it won't work a media of all. the value would be screwed by the army of untrained alts and by the other army of people not playing the game anymore stopping after some days

[Bguy]

it won't work a media of all. the value would be screwed by the army of untrained alts and by the other army of people not playing the game anymore stopping after some days

Could that possibly be factored in? It only monitors people who have been logged in within the past week? Also the "army of untrained alts" could realistically portray the inactive masses of citizens in real life (I mean, not everybody in the world would be training and killing monsters). I am not talking about how you fair among adventurers, but how you fair amongst society.

[weltall]

depends but if a char has from 1 to 15 alts (yes i've heard even of more from some players than those numbers) the thing is unbalanced again and you still don't get what you want. on the other end you would get something near 200 for stats at least

[Rigwyn]

Just curious - how/why would it be useful to know how your character's stats compare to everyone else's stats ?

I ask because for RP I dont think stats really matter that much ( unless you dice roll again the other player's stats )
Also for PVP the *player's dueling skill* alone can be the deciding factor in a pvp duel. So again, stats would matter less.

[Bguy]

Just curious - how/why would it be useful to know how your character's stats compare to everyone else's stats ?

I ask because for RP I dont think stats really matter that much ( unless you dice roll again the other player's stats )
Also for PVP the *player's dueling skill* alone can be the deciding factor in a pvp duel. So again, stats would matter less.

See this is how people think because rp and mechanics are so far separated. I think that how strong or smart you are should be relevant to others so that the "experience can be more complete." Why should a person who can take out dlayos be able to be taken down by a rat killer because of the turnout of rping? Stats SHOULD matter in rp as they create limitations and advantages for your player to use. If rp was closer to mechanics, then it would be easier to set rules upon.

[Rigwyn]

I agree up to a point.

Stats should be taken into consideration however so should a character's history.
If someone has RP'd a character for years as a strong mage lets say, and most other
players acknowledge this character as a strong mage regardless of his actual stats, then
should a newb who has just spent the last 48 hours maxing his stats expect to dominate
this character in rp because his stats are higher ?  In my opinion, I don't think he should.

My main character has his 6 stats maxed and has high sword dw and cw however I dont
try to dominate characters in rp who have been playing much longer that I have.  From
what I have seen most RP characters do not appear to be maxed.

A second point is in the value of measuring yourself against the average of all other players..
How is it of value to know for example that your character is in the 99.9th percentile statwise ?
How would that information be applied in rp ?

Again, Im not criticizing your views - rather I'm just seeking to see this from your point of view.

Thanks
Rig

[Bguy]

Stats should be taken into consideration however so should a character's history.
If someone has RP'd a character for years as a strong mage lets say, and most other
players acknowledge this character as a strong mage regardless of his actual stats, then
should a newb who has just spent the last 48 hours maxing his stats expect to dominate
this character in rp because his stats are higher ?  In my opinion, I don't think he should.

If a person did spend 48 hours straight, training for the experience an older player has achieved over time, this can be placed in an rp perspective. The newer person could be seen as a workaholic, with an unhealthy lifestyle to match his/her extreme desire to train. In this situation, it really depends on the rp situation, as even this massive pling can be put into a realistic rp situation. For skills, the newer person would have the same or possible more theoretical knowledge, but the older person would have rp advantages, like experience and a couple of learned tricks. In my opinion, either one would be able to beat the other depending on the rp. Also, you can rp yourself to be older then you have been playing for, so a new player can rp an old experienced person, and vice versa.

My main character has his 6 stats maxed and has high sword dw and cw however I dont
try to dominate characters in rp who have been playing much longer that I have.  From
what I have seen most RP characters do not appear to be maxed.

The RP people that don't max out stats are exactly the kind of people that are important for this. Not everyone in real life is an olympic athlete, so such people are considered above ordinary. If every single person went around maxing stats, the realistic diversity would be eliminated, and the standards of "average" would be too high for most new players.

[Entevir]

Personally, I think the idea of an average stat and skill level display is nice and would be rather interesting to have even if slightly depressing for my characters who all without exceptions surely fall under the average.

And on the topic of mechanics vs RP. What irks me is when people with 200 strength write their description as a slim person. I RP a slim person and for that set myself a cap on strength at 80. This puts me at a disadvantage in more or less all RP situations but at least makes some sense. Say what you want but there is no way that an Olympic weight lifter can have a ballet dancers build.

[Duraza]

The RP people that don't max out stats are exactly the kind of people that are important for this. Not everyone in real life is an olympic athlete, so such people are considered above ordinary. If every single person went around maxing stats, the realistic diversity would be eliminated, and the standards of "average" would be too high for most new players.

The question: Are maxed out stats -average- strength? I don't think it is... but then again everyone can do it, why shouldn't it be average? You wouldn't have a problem with this at all if players weren't able to max every stat they have. I've rant about this before but I'm not sure whether it will ever happen (especially because its 'unheard' of to have a limit to the amount of leveling and grinding one can do).

[verden]

Perhaps there could be "achievements" added to the descriptions when particular skill/level combinations were reached by a character. This could be in the form of titles added to the characters descriptions. Or some other method of publishing so that players that were in proximity could query and verify that one was a "master sword craftsman", and roleplay could proceed accordingly. There would, of course, be a lot of titles. But achievement systems seem to be well-received by players in a number of other games. OOC information, of course.

[kiou]

i just wanna point out that 48 hours irl, is just twelve ingame days, so no there is no way someone who trains their stats like that can be called an equal to a mage who is years old. Remember that while ingame it may be easy-ish to advance quickly, in rp its more realistic, people dont master things in less than two weeks. If they do its not unlike godmodding.

[Vengeance]

I just looked, and out of 375,719 characters on laanx, only 30 people have any skill maxed out to 200.

Only 1900 in the history of the game have achieved STR at 200.

If you have STR of 200, you can feel good about RPing "strong" without us coding a super-complex system for additional precision.  ;-)

[Rigwyn]

@Vengeance  Wow ! Im rather surprised to hear that .. I would have though more players would have maxed their stats.

@Kiou  48 hours was an exageration... What I was suggesting is someone who who has no job (or takes a vacation) and grinds day and night to get their stats maxed as quickly as possible. I see now from what Vengeance said that this type of player is not  as common as I had thought.