The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)

[novacadian]

The past is something not known to me... yet last night's RP in the city plaza was witnessed. From what Roled said it seemed part of his plot. For me the RP was extremely good. All characters which my character interacted with had a strong presence and deep interweave of story lines. Some things that had caught my attention in the forum came out IC. It was great to see a face behind the posted logs!

Maybe it is as simple as some older characters have died; in the sense that their players no longer want to play them. This is not meant as a reproach for there can be many reasons for that. Numbers may have dropped, yet many reasons can be given for that too. The growth pains of the new releases can only be a major one. Yet do numbers really matter? When 4 or 5 players drop round to take their characters out for a stroll in my D&D world it is enough for good role play. There were enough players present last night to lag my outdated tech.

My advice would be to stop sitting on the sidelines bemoaning the past... it helps little those that want to play in the present.

[Rigwyn]

For a group RP, 4 or 5 participating players is a nice number. When you log in and hours pass and either there are no role players on line, or else the few that are on are in different regions, involved in different things, then its no fun. You cannot rp by yourself. Also, when the few players that are on have a seriously misguided notion of what rp is, when they are mostly ooc or out of setting, you really cannot interact with them. The most grievous case imho is when you come accross a player who simply does not care.

Now don't get me wrong, Im all for teaching those who wish to learn, and I have spent hours teaching anyone who wanted to learn.

The population on the server is horribly low because of a number of things mentioned previously. No need to repeat. With so few role players on at a given moment, I personally find it more enjoyable to play on another game where good rp is the norm, and the population is about the same. It bugs me to waste the few hours that I have hoping to run into another role player or newbie and come out with nothing. To me, thats a waste of my time - which I have little of. What really burns my ass is that the planeshift environment is responsible for this and nobody really cares. That right there tells me that this game is not for me at the moment .. perhaps this will change in the future ...

Now, it sounds like you have found some players who rp to your liking. Thats terriffic. When I played everyone was saying that rp was dead. I stuck with a few solid players and we did what we could to include as many other players as we could in hopes of building up the community. We had fun running our events and posting writeups in the "In Game Roleplay Events" section of the forum. I encourage you to do the same.

Remember, its a game. It should be fun.

[novacadian]

For a group RP, 4 or 5 participating players is a nice number. When you log in and hours pass and either there are no role players on line, or else the few that are on are in different regions, involved in different things, then its no fun. You cannot rp by yourself.

Point well taken. Being new gives me an advantage in that regard. When things are quiet its off to the sewers to hopefully impress Percival. It is solo play yet as the character progresses she seems to flesh out further for me. Which skill to study? Which goal to set? If you have a well developed character that is not likely such an option for you.

New players also have the advantage of exploring and quests that do not require much interaction with other players. This again has an end benefit to RP, when it happens, giving tales to tell and questions to ask; as well as impressions of new places visited.

Without that newness to the planeshift world my feelings may be more like yours. Yet when a new player, like myself, hears over and over again that RP is dead and that you should have been here in the good old days it does nothing to encourage them to remain to help bring back the community to those standards which are bemoaned.

One suggestion, if time is short , is to focus on posted upcoming events that you know will offer RP.

The point that the dev team is somehow contributing to the RP demise perhaps misses me because of my newbie-ness. From a newbie perspective one sees a free and open game with countless programming hours dedicated to it. If you could enlighten me as to what they are not doing to foster RP it would be of interest to me to hear it. This is not meant in any sarcastic manner but in all seriousness. Should it be breaking forum etiquette to comment on it publicly then please send a pm if you get the chance.

- Nova

[Elady]

I'll just say that last night I had about 5 hours of RP involving 11 other people in major ways ( and a few others in minor ways). I wasn't involved with the 11 other people all at one time but one RP scene flowed into the next once smoothly. it started off with a RP fight where the participants let the roll of the dice decide the outcome ( for each attack or attack like action the person being attacked rolled a 6 sided dice with 1-3 being a hit or successful action on the part of the attacker and 4-6 being a miss.

It was a very enjoyable evening for me and congrats to everyone involved.

[Illysia]

Yeah, for me the problem is less that RP happens and more that I can find the kind I like to do. I don't mind a little action here and there but constant, kidnaping to murder to robbery really wears me down and fast. I can't keep going on that. I think the problem for most oldbies is not so much that RP is dying, but that the standard has changed so much that they don't recognize it. RP have gone in many cases from book like epics all the way down to 2 hour action flicks... metaphorically speaking.

RP seems to have lost it's variety and complexity as of late. For instance, just because your character is a thief, it doesn't mean you should always go from one robbery to the next. A thief character could steal food off of people instead of tria, then go back to share his meager banquet with his close friends who have also stolen bits of food to bring. They could sit around and dream of what they would do with X amount of tria and what they want to accomplish one day. Then gradually they plan their thefts so that they can work to pull themselves out of their poverty and accomplish their goals.

Maybe they keep their hope alive by practicing their talents. Maybe the one with a gift for pottery sneaks in a potter's house during  and makes pots to try to sell back to people... That has hasn't robbed. Or the one with a gift for music carries a flute given by a friend and plays during the slow times. Maybe the one with a flair for cooking thinks of all sorts of recipes for the day we he has enough food.

To me, the problem is that a large portion of the community is in the infancy stages of RP and it just hasn't grown beyond that. People pick a role and play it, but they don't tell an integrated story while playing their roles. For instance, I have a character that started out as a common thieving street urchin that tried to rob the wrong lady. But rather than getting spun on her ear for the attempt, the woman saw potential, took her in and trained her. Now that character has made something of herself, however she remembers where she came from and if presented with a similar situation, she would do the same and repeat the cycle. Once you get past the stage where game mechanics limits your imagination as much as your actions, and once you have a good feel for the borders of godmodding and metagaming, then you can get into the integrated stories that go down in the annals of PS history. After all, countless characters get robbed everyday, but the characters with compelling stories are remembered later.

Oowww.... How do you guys keep making me care enough to type these long posts? No more explainy time for you. *goes to find an ice pack for her arm*

[Roled]

Good comments and reminders today- thanks to us all for posting...

Elady yes last night's conversations around Harn's did seem to flow naturally , just as they might if you met a group of people you're acquainted with, coming and going from a mutual and natural destination. Plus several plot lines that I am aware of were forwarded, and several more characters got involved, just as Illysia suggested, naturally, without immediate high drama. Gossip, joking around, friendships deepening, characters revealing themselves to others. It was fun.

How I wish I could somehow be omnipresent throughout Yliakum, to see all the other players/ characters breaking bread, sharing secrets, planning heists, recovering from drinking, teaching each other things, discussing the news of the town, deepening rivalries and planting seeds of chaos or security, and even yes even training up skills because their CHARACTER wants to fight better, defend themselves, or master a craft or skill. Or get in the winch.

We don't  know, as a FORUM community, how rp is progressing unless we post to forum, which I know a lot of folks don't do. Or OOC talk in gossip, which I personally don't have the gossip channel on.  Illysia I happen to know last night a couple of very calm friends chatting rps happened as well as the more dramatic ones. In the interwoven plot series we are trying hard to create story lines that span the breadth of rp from drama to ordinary daily life in Yliakum.

And we learn, each time, I think. We learn by practicing the differences between god modding {master mages who haven't learned any mechanics magic yet} and imaginative implementation {the potter you mentioned} . To me , and this is my opinion, there are 'many roads to Buddha', many many ways for rp to happen and for fun experiences in game to happen. When I was new questing was ridiculous fun {I still like solving new quests a lot}. RR didn't talk that much. Now that RR has done a lot of the quests ( 2-3 10 times) the story and character development are more intriguing and challenging.

I believe in individuality AND I believe a small set of rules helps everyone play together. I like the mechanics frankly, when RR doesn't feel like talking or is broke and needs to mine, I put an away message on my tells. I try to do things, all things, from mining to gossip to questing, in character. It's hard for RR's typist to resist doing BF quests, to see that the answer to certainly npc's will certainly take him to unexplored places in game, but I have to resist, because RR would never do that. Sigh. OR at least unless some things very very .... challenging... happen to the little elf. Every body can change with sufficient motivation.

This is long, I know. Sorry.

Thanks everyone for the insights we keep offering each other!
Roled

[Sarva]

Roled your wish could be granted if you joined the GM team. There is lots of RP going on often in smaller groups in tucked away places. As I GM who can pop all over Ylikum I get to see a lot of different RP going on.

[Illysia]

I give you credit Roled, as your RP storylines have easily been the best thing to happen to RP in PS in a long time. But the fact remains that many players are still at the early stages of RP. Since so many of the RPers that were farther along left (some of them even new players- I miss zephan ), we kinda have to wait for RP in general to broaden out. You plots are encompassing but players in of themselves get to the point where they can't see the grand story forest for the individual RP trees. But it is resulting in good RP than many players enjoy so kudos to you.

[Roled]

Pepito-
Your opinions and your reactions are your own and are valid in your experience.

Please don't god mod by attempting to apply your attitudes to my reactions and opinions.

     

Roled your wish could be granted if you joined the GM team. There is lots of RP going on often in smaller groups in tucked away places. As I GM    who can pop all over Ylikum I get to see a lot of different RP going on.

Cheap. 'Sides Roled deserves a better fate than that.

I didn't find Sarva's comment 'cheap'. In fact, it was an inside joke and made me laugh.

And in my opinion, being a GM is not a 'fate' that I might 'deserve better' than. In my experience, each dealing I've had in this game with GMs has been respectful and helpful and not sarcastic. No GM has every tried to make me feel inferior in any way. And in my opinion being a GM is a tough job and not one to be taken lightly. I don't feel like I am experienced enough yet to be skilled enough to attempt to do that job. Maybe in another year or so I might potentially know enough be as helpful as the GMs who have helped me.

I do sincerely believe in the freedom to express one's opinions. Please be respectful and try not to put your words or attitudes into my mouth.

I do wish you well.
Roled Rolak

[bloodedIrishman]

I would also like to apply to be a GM. 

Whaddya think Sarva? Put in a good word for me?

[Sarva]

Get back to us Irishman when you are old enough to apply for the position.

[bloodedIrishman]

Get back to us Irishman when you are old enough to apply for the position.

I'm an old soul kid. I'll do well. 

[Akkaido Kivikar]

@Roled: I can't godmod you since we are not roleplaying, this is a forum and you confuse the terms, much like you confuse IC and OOC in-game and here often. 'Sides I don't see when I put my words in your mouth, wasn't even addressing you. I don't know, maybe you see things in my post that I can't see.

But I was wrong, you'd make a great GM for PS.

Godmodding in forum debates: Representing someone's opinion without their consent, deciding their value for them, etc.

[Vonor]

Hi all. This is my first post in quite a while, actually since I have left the PS Staff about 10 months ago.
I read what you all think is wrong in how PS is being developed and how the staff is being blamed for it over and over.
As a former Prospect for the Settings and former GM I know quite a lot of the internal ongings and can say yes, the team is not perfect. It never has been nor will it ever be...why? Because we're humans. We all have different opinions, different personalities and different interests and we all do mistakes at times.

However, the maingoal of the staff is to bring PS forward and to achieve that everyone puts in their part. Be it the engine devs who fix bugs or implement new features, the settings devs who sit night and day and work on ideas on how to bring you all more story line to include into your rp, the testers who help with verifying and fixing bugs or the GMs who keep the peace in the game by moderating issues, or bring you stroies through GM events.
Having been part of planeshift as a player before and as part of the staff I know about both sides. Lets try to look at it.

Simple event to drive away the boredom at the mines: Ulber Raid
A herd of Ulbers makes their way through the passage way and attacks the miners. Killing some, getting slain by wizards and warriors.
It's abut half an hour fun for the players who enjoy fighting, it's about half an hour frustration for those power miners who suffer from the death course, but what about roleplayers? In my time as a GM I often hung out at the mines, before and after we did such a raid. the topic has quickly been put aside again and the silent grind for ores continues.

People, both staff members and players have brought non combat RP to the mines and either players jumped on to get a shiney new GM item or they continued their mining (I am generalizing here, of curse there have also been a few players who got in for the RP)
Also there have been events that built up, over days and weeks. But hardly anyone continued the stories once the GM char disappeared again.

Quests are done to gain rewards and entrance to some locations, some players roleplay it, using the knowledge they gained fro quests for their roleplay, but not many do.

Why people keep blaming the staff for not making this an RP game escapes me, because the staff tries very hard to do so.

Players try to host events too, be it outlaws lurking around and robbing people on the roads or be it story telling in the taverns. be it festivities hosted by groups, or be it market days. Roleplay is there and is created all the time. Is it dying? Maybe, I have not been in PS in a long while and don't know what is going on currently. But if it is dying, then ask yourself for the reason. Ask yourself those questions: Do I participate in GM events to get items or short time fun in combat, or do I participate because the story is appealing to my character and can help me further my own RP story? Am I participating in player events or am I doing my own stuff and don't care what others do?

However, roleplay does not necessarily mean huge events with lots of players in it...roleplay is also happening when just two people meet somewhere and talk, or if a smith emotes his actions, which can be quite some fun too, a young smith hitting his thumb and yelling out in pain...or such things. The important part is, that you do more than stand around and use game mechanics day in and out... and, of course, to stay in character and keep out of character talk to a minimum. It doesn't even matter whether you type a screen long paragraph emote or if you just talk as if you're chatting, both is RP when done IC - sure, detailed emotes where the reader gets a mental picture before his eyes is always better for immersion, but not everyone likes it r is able to.

Now I have moved on to another game and I can say, that eventhough behind the engine, server and client is a HUGE company which charges LOTS of money from people who host a region, there are lots of bugs and lag too. Player created content, combat systems and weapons all player created. Of course there's a lot going on behind the scenes as well, because it's RL money. However, besides all the troubles, which affects EVERY community in EVERY game, there is a lot of RP going on - if that works there, why not here in PS too? Look around, see a player standing somewhere alone? Go over there and play according to how your character would...You'll entertain them with RP and you'll get RP in return and you never know what may come out of a simple "Hello" :-)

Long story short: Don't hang on the forums and look for reasons why RP is dying, instead go in game and create RP

Vonor

[verden]

Why people keep blaming the staff for not making this an RP game escapes me, because the staff tries very hard to do so.

Because there is no hard definition of what a "roleplay" game is. It means different things to different people. Consider the arguments over short-form and long-form RP. Some do not consider just emoting during a conversation RP. To others, long-form RP is getting to close to scripting things that should be expository. To others, the system should have more RP mechanics and less of a reliance on player-generated RP. To others, player-generated RP should be the focus, and mechanics should be removed in favor of a system that lets anyone play any type of character they want to from the get go. Those are just a couple of the interpretations.

But since you took the time to post a nice composition, perhaps you would detail to us why you left the game?