The state of roleplaying in PS (aka, something you won't ever admit)

[Xoel]

There's several places where the project has said "This is a tech demo" all over their website. Players = Testers.

Pushing the player-dev divide? There is no player dev divide, the devs all were mere players once, then they decided to volunteer and help, so that in a shorter period of time, there'd be a finished roleplaying game. Better that than to complain about it all the time.

What's the point in putting it all on a PR guy? Does that mean I should be silenced in a community because I can use Blender and decided to help? Way to encourage contribution...

I used to just post off my player account, but everyone gave me a hard time for having two accounts, and participating in this community as a dev and a player. And making the odd post-of-the-wrong account. Then they left, asking to have their accounts deleted. Then they came back, to annoy everyone. And I should be silenced?

[Rigwyn]

"Mere players" ?
You're a snob who denies the existence of the player dev divide. This snobbery does not help bridge that divide.

Why have a PR person?
Perhaps you should google "public relations"
A good PR person would not stick their foot in their mouth like you just did. Whether you realize it or not you are making dev side bad by doing that.

[Talad]

Oh, great, you judge my ability to roleplay from 10 lines of chat, in which we were testing the auctions of houses for the first time and it was not supposed to be an RP event, but just an auction to see the mechanics.

Anyway you have the same IP of Nevera, who has been banned from this forum for trolling, so I warn you to avoid trolling in here, or you will be banned by IP this time (and in game as well this time).

Your comments on changing the game about page can easily be classified as trolling as well.

[jaculapundactum]

Reading this thread made me lose the little faith I had left in PS. 

[RlyDontKnow]

Reading this thread made me lose the little faith I had left in PS.  

nearly same, but it makes me lose faith in the players
seems nobody is able to discuss something without starting a flamewar about something totally unrelated, anymore

PS:

No big deal, I'll use another proxy, a new email, and a new username if you ban this one.

that's what makes you a troll

[Mogweh]

@Xoel: Telling someone they are a tester doesn't make them any good at it. There needs to be clear instruction of how to test. How to get complete cover of a module being tested etc. Put up all the notices up you like, but if the game isn't being tested then something needs to change. Players need to be encouraged, not told "they can't be bothered". If something isn't working it would be more constructive to look at ways of getting it working rather than blaming. In that regard I would suggest someone who isn't so close to building the actual game and not so emotional, like a PR person.

[Xoel]

@Xoel: Telling someone they are a tester doesn't make them any good at it. There needs to be clear instruction of how to test. How to get complete cover of a module being tested etc. Put up all the notices up you like, but if the game isn't being tested then something needs to change. Players need to be encouraged, not told "they can't be bothered". If something isn't working it would be more constructive to look at ways of getting it working rather than blaming. In that regard I would suggest someone who isn't so close to building the actual game and not so emotional, like a PR person.

1) The Bugtracker. Not that hard to use. Simple as if you find a bug, see if it's in there, then if it's not, make a new thread, it's rather similar to forum posting. Put your system specs in so that the bug can be tested.

2) The dev team haven't complained about lack of testing, it's the players complaining about the dev team

3) Not all players "can't be bothered". Just the ones who put their RPs, and imaginary characters before the advancement of the project. They know who they are

[Talad]

The comment about me not roleplaying much when I show up new features it's a fair comment. That's usually dictated by lack of time, and the will to show some previews without having to spend hours on it. Most of those features are in early stages and there is really no good way to roleplay those, so they remain break in reality for few minutes. Let's say my Talad character is prone to be OOC in those cases. Anyway I don't think those 20 minutes of intervention on my side can ruin the overall atmosphere like someone said in here, but on the contrary can give some nice preview to players. On a different note, there are many occasions in which I join in game with other chars or creatures to roleplay, which go unseen, and are supposed to go unseen anyway, because those are part of the world.

@Pepito: well, maybe instead of trolling, getting banned and changing IPs, it's better to stop trolling.

[Hanix]

Why is it, when you look through the PS forums, you see a pattern. The same people moaning about the same things all the time and they are the ones claiming hard done by... funny that.. morons.
Noone has the right to say anyone can or cant RP. One persons RP may not be compatible with anothers, doesnt mean they are not RPing at all. And sure, some are better than others. But as long as people TRY to RP and join in with the game and the settings, whats the problem?

As for the people who dont lvl or train... well your not playing PS are you, your txt chatting. PS is an RP game WITH mechanical aspects to aid and to help develop RP. If yoiu refuse to use those aspects of the game, then your not playing PS in the way it was designed and you have absolutely zero right to dictate in any way what YOU think should be done. Play the game as it was designed to be played useing ALL aspects of the game and maybe people will take you serioiusly. Until then, dont moan.

[Hanix]

Oh im sorry, you were making sooooooo many generalisations, i thought i would join in with a general comment addressing the many people in here that have stated they wont train.
You see its easy to generalise isnt it.

[RlyDontKnow]

Always come with the same crap, which usually nobody said.

same goes for you and most others who posted here  
RP is nothing to be enforced via mechanics - that's simply not possible in a sane way.

devs try to deliver some base you can build upon - in other words the game itself (being it the mechanics, the settings, the quests, rules, ...). what is made out of it isn't something within the dev's scope.

e.g. as an engine dev I can surerly implement a new feature that may be used. however that doesn't automatically mean it will be used - especially not in the way it was thought of. however that's not a bad thing.

if you have a great idea how to promote RP better, shoot it, but honestly: the complaint department is probably not the right place to do it. work out some real proposal in the discussion area and post it on the wish list or the bugtracker (maybe as feature request?) once it's ellaborate enough to be taken serious.

however such flame threads blaming each other like this one really doesn't help anyone.
also keep in mind that there's barerly any staff, so it's impossible to donate all time being ingame kicking off events, etc.

[Phage]

[..]
@Pepito: [..] better to stop trolling.

May happen Pepito sounds offensive or trolling by times, but he virtually always makes a point. Generally speaking, if you want to stay on a high level you must not stop to question yourself and your motivations - Pepito seems like doing that all the time, and in the worst case in between the lines, there is always substance in his posts that can as well be taken as constructive criticism, useful to improve things.

Hm, no offense, but I cannot see how is your post any useful, Hanix.
But since you are making generalizations without pointing at anyone specific, let me add one: At least one department head here is an idiot, you disagree?

PS:

Always come with the same crap, which usually nobody said.

same goes for you and most others who posted here 

In fact it was discussed a lot whether implementing some focus on roleplaying in form of a guideline to be agreed to would be a good idea or not - at last I havent seen a good reason why not. Instead PS is announced and advertized as a roleplaying game, whereas thats not a reasonable claim considering the circumstances. Same goes for numerous other things that have never changed. And to solve that conflict would be simple for most of those: Soften the definition of PS to "tolerates/ welcomes" roleplaying. But as long as it is the players to the most part to provide immersion and roleplaying flavor and not the responsible staff, the current definition is just not right.
Of course same things will come up again and again, thats the way a community works, always opposing powers that at last give rise to changes - unless you wont tolerate anybody to not agree with your official opinion.

[RlyDontKnow]

In fact it was discussed a lot whether implementing some focus on roleplaying in form of a guideline to be agreed to would be a good idea or not - at last I havent seen a good reason why not.

the proposals I have seen don't try to promote RP, but try to enforce a *certain style* of RP - that's just not right imo

Instead PS is announced and advertized as a roleplaying game, whereas thats not a reasonable claim considering the circumstances.

how so? you can build a character, follow the story, build your own upon it, have a great range of choices what to become ingame without any real restrictions, etc. - that does sound like a roleplay game, doesn't it? maybe our definitions differ though (note: RP doesn't mean "always act like you'd be writing a stage play" to everyone)

Of course same things will come up again and again, thats the way a community works, always opposing powers that at last give rise to changes - unless you wont tolerate anybody to not agree with your official opinion.

at least I am posting as a player I don't think there are "opposing powers", that's something you make up in your mind imo. pretty much anyone can contribute or give an ellaborate thesis why something should be changed/expanded/..., though I barerly see such proposals.

just my 2 cents, though

[Rigwyn]

Quite a but has been proposed and discussed on the forums for improving the rp environment. Its all been ignored. As for Pepito not using the mechanics I personally know that he has used the mechanics quite extensively. In fact, more than I have.

So why do some of us stick around and discuss how to make RP better?  Personally I don't really care as much as I once did as I've left for now. It would be nice to return one day and find that PS is in better condition but at this rate I don't see that happening. Some of us still stick around on the forums because we still care somewhat .. or perhaps because we still have friends here.

Most of the people who have complained about the need to better support RP in PS have not been saying that noobs should be bashed or shunned, rather that some basic standard be put in place in order to guide them. All players start out as noobs. I'm not trying to sound condescending or anything. People will grow and change in ways that are influenced by their environment. A game full of ooc noob guilds and with no rules to enforce rp will not produce many role players. Likewise, a game full of solid role players with good rules and policies will produce fewer noobish players. This is just common sense.

These issues can be fixed by simply making some agreed upon definitions, rules and standards. Its not like anything needs to be coded or worked on.

Lastly, as stated earlier, this isn't much of a team left.  It might be a good idea to take a look at why and then ask yourselves what could be done to change that

[RlyDontKnow]

Quite a but has been proposed and discussed on the forums for improving the rp environment. Its all been ignored.

I've yet to see something that's to the point outlining what can be done, how, why, etc. without 20 sites of pointless flaming around it, but correct me if I'm wrong, that's just my impression.

If you find anywhere I did that at just post it and I'll point it out, it's most likely a confusion, given that I'm not a native english speaker... or maybe I just wanted to piss somebody off.

don't post to piss others off, that way you'll surerly be taken more serious

Nein, rules aren't meant to impose only one style of RP, are meant to dismiss certain types of "RP" since everything that isn't forbidden is officially accepted by the "we support all kinds of RP" wave. At the moment, godmoding is officially accepted, metagaming is officially accepted, mistaking IC by OOC is officially accepted, blatantly playing off-setting is officially accepted and so on. It's nothing to do with styles, but with usually unacceptable behavior.

lemme point you to the policies and the related explanation of roleplay as well as the policy extension again.
it is quite clear about OOC, godmodding, etc., isn't it? correct me if I'm wrong, but unless I get our current rules totally wrong, anything beyond those is pretty much enforcing a certain style.

I would love to think you're right and that putting down proposals about how to improve RP is welcome, but you only have to browse all of Illysia's threads (and they are not in the complaints department) to realize they are not so welcome, even usually flamed sooner or later. And this, sadly, it's not only the devs to blame for, it's the same players that misunderstand or do want to misunderstand.

it is welcome as long as it's dicussed properly (aka don't get personal, stay on topic, no flame wars, ...), at least from my point of view.
though I do agree some users like to get off track - pretty sad actually :/

Agreed. I'm not sure if you meant to say this is what I said, or if anything I said sounded like this, but wasn't what I meant. What I meant is that mechanics have to always take RP into consideration when you're making an RP game. Mechanics should be done so that they do support RP instead of hindering it or even forcing it.

thanks for the clarficiation, it did sound like enforcing mechanics wise for me, but maybe that's just due to the ideas that came up lately (check the DR one or the furnances one on the wish list o_O)

You, as an engine dev, can either choose to do this or not, and to do it properly (assuming your intention is to) you must know how does the current game state influence on RP. For instance, you could now implement a 255 characters limit per line like most MMORPGs have because let's say there is too much spam going IG. This would hinder RP and probably piss off many RPers, so you, knowing that would happen, would just look for a fix to the spam that suits both the mechs' needs and the RP's needs (mind you,. the current spam filter isn't so bad anyway). Just an example... hope it was clear now. Problem with this, applying it to the whole development with all it implies, is that when devs don't have a detailed view on what happens IG things are done the wrong way.

we are trying our best on that, however of course not everything always goes right. if you have some feedback, bring it up in a constructive way on whatever channel (to a dev on irc, on the bt, here on the forum, ...). just stay constructive if you want it to be taken into account, e.g. a "it sucks" or "it ain't no werk" usually doesn't get much attention