Magic Is Not Overpowered...

[Marqsaynt]

(Extra commentary courtesy of The Jaded PS Oldbie™)

This guy is insane… I think I’ll read just for a laugh.

Magic is not overpowered. To my own surprise this is the conclusion I came to after (re)considering the magic system in PlaneShift.  Shot for shot a highest level weapon strike still does more damage than a maxed offensive spell.  This seems logical since (much like I imagine ranged fighting will work) the main benefit of using magic is tactical. The ability to fire off a spell while staying out of reach is part of what makes offensive spells attractive.

Well, you’ve convinced me. The magic system is perfect, let’s declare it version 1.0 and pop open the champagne.

But obviously there is something misbalanced in the system, spell casting characters are able to dominate in duels simply by jamming rapid fire on a hot key, (short)cutting down even the most skilled of  weapon based fighters. If magic isn’t too strong then what is to blame? To put it simply, magic is just too easy to use. You lock on a character and regardless of what your target does or how they attempt to dodge the attack you hit them and hit them hard. Potentially there is the possibility for the weapon user to run out of range of the spell but, how will a swordfighter ever be able to win if they can’t get within a football field length of their opponent?

Really, magic has some issues? Tell me something I don’t know. You have some ideas or are you just complaining? Kids these days…

It takes more (at least the way players actually fight) than just locking onto a target and clicking a /attack shortcut repetitively to hit someone in a duel; there is timing, distance, and positioning to consider. Why shouldn’t magic take a little skill as well? The easiest way I see to add this would be as simple as a tiny dot; a reticule of some sort that gives the player the ability to point where the spell is going. This would also mean it would be more difficult to hit something/someone that is further away, it would be possible for a magic caster to actually miss, and an opponent may actually be able to dodge an attack if they move quickly enough. From what I can tell these are all aspects that add to realism. Of course this means no more standing with your back to your opponent (so you don’t lag while spamming spells), waiting for a challenge to be accepted, then jamming on a shortcut for ten seconds while you wait for victory… but, we all have to make sacrifices.

Okay, discuss, debate, and hopefully generate some awesome ideas.

Grr, I’ll reply but not because you want me to, just to point out how wrong you are… once I figure out what exactly it is that you are so blatantly wrong about. You’re going down junior.

[Illysia]

omg... you're still around.    Ok, I'm through being


So what is this from? Is it a random review? And people are entitled to their opinions. 

[Marqsaynt]

It's from me and my (apparently) multiple personalities. Of course people are entitled to their own opinions, who am I to prevent people from being wrong?

[Wavan Levironk]

It sure does bother me that powerful mages on duels just go far from you and kill you while you can do nothing about it.

But the problem is who you fight.

Effective magic levels are reached with level 80+ in a way (or that's my experience), and take into account that archieven level 80 in a weapon skill is much easier than a magic skill.

I would implement a delay between spells (not between shortcuts), even though the highest level you have, the fastest the spell is casted, the delay time is always the same for everyone. I'd also implement collision detection for spells... what's the point in flames or arrows going through walls? (and then hitting your character and killing it?) It will surely make duels funnier seeing people attempting to get covered against a mage

I wouldn't say this has a high priority, but I accepted a duel against a guy once, and even though I ran to the plaza, he killed me from the tavern (I didn't reach the plaza... but almost) using spells and not even seeing me, his words: "Spells are casted from your voice, no need to see the opponent", I doubt that's true.

[kiou]

spells should be interrupt-able.

when shields are imped a toggle for using your shield full on, would be a good way to stop some magic.
shiny...

magic really is way overpowered, magic use walks around randomly, you chase them like a chicken sans head, you die in a few seconds. you cant use anti magic, armor does nothing to magic.
etc.

[Akeera]

a good point to start thinking over how the ANTI-MAGIC skill could be implemented

[Nykolai Raskaniov]

I happen to agree with Marqsaynt's other personality

One good way to improve magic at this time, just like you suggested, would be to add player targeting, not auto-target, 100% chance hit.

[PhoenixRizin]

Maybe a simple solution is to handle magic the way weapon fighting is handled, meaning magic attacks can only go directly in front of the caster. I cant his someone with my swords if my back is to them, so lets have the same hold true for magic. And this would let people dodge spells just by side stepping them. Or there can just be a warning like in swordfighting where you arent even allowed to cast the spell if the person isnt in front of you.

[Mouli]

player targeting will be suck cuz of lag some ppl have no lag and can target easily but with lag its impossible to target someone

[Rigwyn]

Regarding the balance of magic versus sword I think one has to consider the amount of damage that one can do during their early and intermediate stages of training.  Mages are pathetically weak during early and intermediate levels while a swordsman  will do much more damage - especially with crafted weapons.

IMHO a powerful mage should be feared. Pitted against a single warrior at a distance he should win - regardless of how strong the warrior is.  The mage should be at a disadvantage when within striking range though. Likewise he could be picked off with a single arrow if unaware of the presence of an archer or someone who throws daggers. (Unless he can heal himself or predict the future )

Take chess for example.. Bishops and rooks have a strong advantage when there are open files, and a strong disadvantage on a congested board. Knights hop around easily on a congested board but lack the ability to span large distances... Pawns being incredibly immobile are good at blocking and can become queens. Each piece has its own pros and cons.

Regarding spells and collision detection, I think some spells should be blockable via physical means while some should not.

 * Spells that project something physical - like flying stones, should perhaps be blockable to some extent - perhaps by a strong barrier like a wall or cart.
 * Spells that project something non-physical - like taste of death and energy arrow should not be blockable by physical means (including plain armor).

Just my two cents.

[kiou]

also when people start casting i sometimes lag, and that is the end for me...

[Vannaka]

I think forcing magic users to face the direction of their opponent would be great.  I also think making the backpedal speed half the normal running speed would solve a lot of magic problems.  This would mean if you attack with magic while running away from a swordsman, the swordsman has twice the speed, and is more likely to catch up.

[Akeera]

Anti-Magic should be a combat skill and should be more differentiated:

+ Protection against Azure Way
+ Protection against Blue Way
+ Protection against Brown Way
+ Protection against Crystal Way
+ Protection against Dark Way
+ Protection against Red Way

or grouped, for example:

+ AB-Protection (Azure, Blue)
+ BC-Protection (Brown, Crystal)
+ DR-Protection (Dark, Red)

the religion your character has chosen could give you max. level in one of the protection-against-skills without training/practicing them