Wipe y/n?

[Heleckie]

Noooo....  Im new.  So it is easy to wipe me.  But even though I am new I would be resentful for all the hard work I put into the game so far.

So imagine people who have been playing for years.  It is disrespectful to their loyalty to the game.

Maybe there are a lot of inactive players who could be wiped, but the game is nothing without all these hard working active players.  If it is just to fix bugs surely that can be done without destroying the entire civilization and culture of Planeshift?

Im not looking forward to a nuclear winter if it does happen.   

[Marqsaynt]

Noooo....  Im new.  So it is easy to wipe me.  But even though I am new I would be resentful for all the hard work I put into the game so far.

So imagine people who have been playing for years.  It is disrespectful to their loyalty to the game.

Where is this misnomer coming from? (Not to single you out, Heleckie, I have seen it in some other people's posts but, yours is just the most recent). From what I can see, many of the people who are proponents of a wipe seem to be some of the oldest members of the PlaneShift community. I've been around myself for about 4 years, have maxed out 3 characters (though max stats used to be a lot lower ) and have as many "special" items as the next guy. However,  compared to some others going on record as pro-wipe, my 4 years are just a drop in the bucket.   

[Under the moon]

Well, since some people don't seem to believe this would be beneficial enough to overcome the 'woe is my character stats', then prove it to them. As has been suggested before, back up the Laanx data, wipe the server, and test new things for a month. If the problem proves false, restore the old database.

Myself, I would take the opportunity to test various setups for training and economy, such as making ore and loot worth very little, make training practically free, lower the skill caps, and fiddle with wear and tear on items to find the best equation. You can't do any of that without a restart.

Without that and sticking to the current data and status quo, YOU, the players that are holding a wipe back, are impeding progress. PlaneShift is supposed to be about innovation. That can't happen if you are not willing to let it change. Get over yourself, and get off the bridge so they can fix it rather than trying to build a new one under your feet while you are standing on it.

I have been playing for 4-5 years, have had over 20 characters (yes, a few of them even leveled up some), and have many unique items. I vote for a wipe.

*ps.... I wonder how many of the 'No' people are making multiple accounts to vote in this poll.

[Bonifarzia]

Allow me to post a few thoughts...

Personally, I would not mind recreating my character(s) from scratch, even though it will probably take another year or two to catch up with the PLers, in order to enjoy good duels and participate in tournaments again. I see perfectly justified reasons for a reset as discussed here. For instance, if vital changes have been made to the  rules (economy-, combat-, magic- or progression-system), it seems an obvious need to reset or adjust those aspects of our characters that are directly affected (though, I doubt this holds for character creation and the quest system). Also, I can understand it is way simpler to just reset everything instead of investing more time and effort to detect and fix those parts of the databases that need a refresh. Judging from my very limited amount of information, I conclude some effort has also been put into those balance issues, HOWEVER I am not convinced that the next update will indeed lead to a state of development where we would gain the optimal benefit from such a reset. I have no clue how much work has been done on easypeasy since it has been closed for internal testing. I can only guess that it takes plenty of trial and error to finally achieve a more or less balanced system that is sophisticated and robust enough that a full reset will eliminate the issues discussed in this thread without ending up in something close to the initial state soon. Therefore, I think it is not only a difficult question to see where a full or partial reset will lead to (and where not), but also to find a a good strategy among the many ways how to do it. No matter how you choose, you cannot make everyone happy. I was sincerely surprised to hear Xillix be willing to compromise. I can imagine that some of the people who strictly refuse the idea of losing their characters would like the concept of compromise, for whatever it will mean. Just to give an arbitrary example, general removal of all items and tria, setting all stats to some base values and reducing all skill ranks by a factor of three means to lose at least 90% of the "effort" invested (according to the current way of progression, which is likely to change some day anyways), but would leave people with some feeling of their characters individuality. (Of course, RP is what makes them unique, but the games mechanics are not to be ignored.) Putting up the major reset in several stages along with the inclusion and testing of some new or renewed game content could be the best option, but seems very complicated to organize. On the other hand, a full reset with no clear concept and justification will cause people to lose interest. It may be true that it is not them who are vital to the project, but I would dislike to see another bunch of friends leave.

In summary, when the dev team concludes the project is ready for a full reset, I will be 100% for it. At this point, however, I have doubts this is truly the case, so I vote against it. A more complicated way to address the mentioned problems could lead to some compromise, but this seems improbable to take place. Finally, it cannot harm the community to put some thought into this topic (objective and reflective reasoning, not mere outburst of temper). Still, the community as such can only be ready for this rupture when the project is.

[player_of_games]

wow, the nay-sayers have managed to push the yay-sayers back to under 55%

I would say the last wipe was definitely not yesterday, if a new one is needed, why
not do it now, that the exciting new 0.5 release can be supported.

There is not seriously people arguing that there will be another wipe with the 1.0 version?
Who is that supposed to affect? my grand-children? 

Wipe away... regards, player_of_games

[PhoenixRizin]

Bonifarzia makes some good points. I guess I'd like to see what changes are made when EZPCUSA opens for player testing. I'd still like in any event for players to be able to keep their characters (or at least the names). From the dev POV is it possible to reserve names, so that even if a character must be remade someone else can't just swoop in and take a name? And if its a matter of old accounts, there is a record of the last login. So maybe it's still just a matter of setting a time span (1 year I think is fair) that a char had to be last logged in in order to be spared. And send an email to all the players notifying them that if they haven't logged in that char in the last year it will be deleted. Guilds should be kept the same as well.

[Lhaa]

So imagine people who have been playing for years.  It is disrespectful to their loyalty to the game.

No it is not. Since the very first day we started playing we knew a total wipe would happen anytime. Maybe we all should have not trained as much and focus more in what it is said to be the main goal of Planeshift: roleplaying.
I have about 30 chars and some of them are stat/skill maxed. My main char now is past half the way through. Gone to lvl 85 Blue Way and over 25 in repair armors (whoever trained it knows how slow it is). Another char of mine can craft Q300 swords and daggers, another is past lvl 60 in cooking, I have a few special items, 3 million tria in my inventory that I will probably never spend, and a long. long etc.
I still favor the wipe for the sake of balancing and testing new features.

...all these hard working active players

I've already said this before but let me do this again...
What on earth is a hard working player?
Mind you, this is a game. Hard work is something that has nothing to do with it.
All those players who think training was hard work should probably either demand a salary to train or stop doing it.
It is supposed to be fun for you to do, nobody should play a game to torture themselves.

Starting new and forget all my chars and their histories? No thanks.
If anybody wants to start new they can simply create a new character at any given point.
A wipe is an OOC solution to the database problems thus it has nothing to do with our characters and the world they live in.
Doesn't matter to me if they suddenly can't smack an ulbernaut. As somebody already stated, nobody else will be able to do it so I don't see the problem in keeping to play the same characters and behave exactly the same they all did before the wipe. Train your characters to the point they were in the meantime.

The stats/skills i've obtained is what makes my character.

Sorry? Quite a dull character, if you let me.
Maybe you need to think a bit more about it, then.
You could try replying to these questions (make it she or kra if you need to) :

Physical
Describe his posture. Does he carry himself well? Is he crooked?
Is he in good shape or out of condition? Is he muscularly weak or strong?
How is his health? Any illnesses or conditions? Any physical disabilities?
Is he physically active or sedentary? A fast or slow mover?
Is he clumsy? Awkward? Graceful?
Is he physically tense or relaxed, nervous, controlled?

Clothing
What are their favorite articles of clothing?
Are their clothes new or old? Homemade, hand-me-downs, expensive?
Do his clothes fit well?
Is he comfortable in what he wears or does he “fight” his clothes?
Does he have to dress a certain way because of his job or position? If so, do his usual clothes fit his real, basic character?

Voice
Does he speak in a high or low-pitched voice? When might he be higher than usual? When lower?
Is he a loud or soft-talker?
Is there a wide range in the voice in pitch, volume, and/or quality, or is the voice pretty consistent and even?
Is there an accent? Anything unusual in pronunciation, emphasis, phrasing?
Is the speech clear or muddy? Does he mumble, is he distinct?

Mind
Does he think quickly? Slowly? Is he quick-witted? Dull?
Is the character impulsive or deliberate in reaching conclusions? Is he logical, rational, or emotional?

Emotions and Personality
Is he an extrovert, an introvert?
Does he like people?
Does he have many friends? Any close friends?
Is he hot-blooded or cool-headed?
Does he have a narrow or wide range of emotions? Do they show?
Would you say he is basically sensitive or callused?
Is he suspicious, cautious, trusting, or naïve about new people or situations?
In a danger or emergency situation, would he go to it or run away from it?
Is the character basically nervous or calm?
Is he a practical joker? What is his opinion on tricks or jokes played on other people?
Under what conditions could he be harmful or cruel to another person?
Is he a loving person? Is he full of love and giving or rather bound and tight in this area?
Is he capable of relating to others in a loving way? Is a capable of relating to one person in a romantic way?

Wealth, Power, and Influence
Does this person have much money? Does it provide position or respect from others?
Is he generous or selfish with his money and possessions?
Does the character rate high on the pecking order with his household? Town? Area? Nation? World?
Can he command others to do his bidding, by word or manipulation?
To whom is he subservient? Is this submission willing or unavoidable?

Activities
What does this character do when he is bored?
What does he do when he's excited or nervous?
What things does he really like to do?
What things does he really hate to do?
What are his leisure activities? Pastimes? Recreations?
Does he play games? What kind?
Does he like to eat or drink? How important to him are food and drink?

Favorite Things
Colors?
Food?
Drinks?
Smells?
Time of day?
Season of year?
Books?
Places to visit?
Metals: gold, iron, copper, pewter, etc?
Building materials: stone, wood, clay, tile, etc?
Fabrics: silk, wool, linen, etc?
Pieces of furniture?
Animals?
Miscellaneous?

Fear
What things frighten him?
Is he motivated by fear?
To what extent is he motivated: never, occasionally, usually, constantly?
What would this character think were the three most terrible things that could happen to him?
What would he think were the three most wonderful things were to happen to him?

Hope this helped you character's depth instead of a few numbers.

: There is a particularly nasty graphics glitch IRL called "blindness". Thing is, you don't see it, or anything else for that matter. 

Lhaa:  maybe...

Just.... meh, no comment.

[derula]

.oO(Maybe I shouldn't have used my ring of the past from MB->CB switch as part of my character's story then...)

Don't care about a wipe, since I really RP mostly (actually, I will be able to create my new char with a higher endurance than my old char, with which I started at 20 and trained for hours).

[aldo]

how about....

... keep ezpcusa for levellers
... keep fragnetics as it is (without wipe)
... install 3rd server for those who wish a reset

Planeshift is a growing game and that way can attrackt more and more players.
I like the idea to have one game with three different concepts also for the release of Version 1.0.

Next is, devs, gms and players can monitor what trend happens. To which server is the majority going and maybe
can draw a practical conlusion of it? The opinions in this forum are theoretical in my opinion.

- Aldo

[weltall]

not doable. first of all we don't have a server second maintaining 3 servers (2 public servers and a test server) up to date is already complex adding another will make things even more complex with the current db schema (and even hindering the addition of new npc with easiness without a wipe of everything)  another one will make things even more complex

[Yukioshonara]

The whining over lost items, stats and skills due to a wipe unnecessarily prolong the necessary.

Whether the wipe happens at this exact moment in time, at the next update's release, a year, or at the 1.0 release client; the complaints and arguments shall remain similiar and not change. The safety of the database, the consistency of the server's security and the amount of dangerous exploits, hacks and misues do.

Those that play the game for it's intended purposes will not leave. Those that do not may. Those that deeply miss their achievements in events, and leveling stats and skills may be disgruntled and discomforted; yet if they play for the right reasons this will not be the deciding factor in their leaving.

The PS community shall not be cut, spliced, bashed, battered or tarnished. The community will receive a typical fresh start outlook on their player experiences.

I am not an angel, and the thought of my work in skills being wiped annoys me. That's clearly going to happen with anyone. Live with it, here's a hankerchief weepy  .

+1

[AldoNova]

The wipe still isn't guaranteed regardless. It's all theoretical until you hear otherwise.

I like the idea of the stat addicts keeping their stats and rpers having a clean slate on laanx but I was merely running the idea before the crowd.

I am still 100% in favor of total wipe, but I'd be willing to compromise.

I don't see ez with laanx data as a horrible outcome. We still get the primary server clean and fresh with grinders happy on the ezpcusa server.

Ezpcusa will remain the non-rp server and people can behave in a generally more sandboxish manner.

I wish someone would post what will be accomplished by a wipe that makes it necessary and better for all involved in the game, Devs, GMs, Players (also known as beta testers). After reading 18 pages of posts, while reading a little of what is technically sound to warrant a wipe (I could have lost it in the angst) most of what I read is this. RPers vs Levelers. Get them nasty sandboxish acting stat addicts. Or, who cares about those weakling RPers. Most of what is written here about two sides fighting and ranting at each other. I grind stats, RP, have gotten in every event that I've come across and try my best to have a well rounded character. XilliX, not to bust your chops, but it seems to me you don't like Levelers much, I get that idea from several of your posts here and some of the things I've you've said in irc's. So I have a question for you if you don't mind. Wipe or don't wipe will imho will be solely a Devs decision and whatever they decide I will follow suit and keep building or rebuild my character as necessary. That said, I am very confused about what's going on here and my question is this. In PS you can RP, you can build stats, increase skills in Combat, Magic, Jobs and Various. Why especially where this subject is concerned does it seem to be a war between RPers and Levelers? I thought all of the things you can do on PS were supposed to work together, am I wrong? For me personally they've gone hand in hand, my RP needs my stats and my stats are frequently needed in my RP. Those called "pure RPers" miss out on part of the game as do those called "Grinders" only. I understand how important RP is and have since day one. What's the last thing you have to answer in the tutorial, RP. IF RP is the sole importance of the game then why not just set some stats for every race and gender and get on with the RP? My opinion is, for good players and play it all works together to have all of what PS has to offer on the table to be able to have a well rounded character. Lastly, for simple minded folks like myself I'd like to see one post that spells it all out without the holier than thou labeling of players. One that that says technically these are the sound reasons a wipe is needed right now no matter what kind of player you are. This would also give the GMs a place to send people asking these questions in game rather than the stock "go read the forums" answer I got that led me here to find 18 pages of everyone trying to bully each other pretty much. Sending "stat addicts" to one server and leaving the "pure RPers" on the other again in my opinion does not address the real problem or solve the issues presented here. PS is too good a game to start dividing it up into pieces.

I guess for now I'll stop there as I have a hundred more questions and I'd like to see more civility and mostly a better PS for ALL of us RPer, Leveler and those of us a combination of both. What are the reasons a wipe is in the immediate best interest of everyone? If that answer is out there already it got lost in the banter and angst.

AldoNova, A Lurker With Too Many Questions

[Illysia]

-We've redone the entire quest system
-We've made Platinum harder to get
-We're working on the spell system
-We're about to rework character creation from scratch
-There are a bunch of new traits older characters missed the chance to elect
-Over 900 bugs fixed since last release
-Devs are pretty nearly universally on the side of a wipe

I can say to questions of "why do it?"

-Previous Exploits
-Need to re-examine leveling mathematically.
-Need a flood of people in early leveling to balance this effectively.
-Reworking major systems (magic, factions, quests...)
-Need to re-assess training levels, what should be max, the value of time relative to fun.
-Need to re-align who trains what and where.
-many dead accounts, guilds, and guild houses.
-Clear long time players to play on the correct server
-Set clear baseline for the new rp rules on laanx.

Xillix has already stated quite plainly why it is a good idea to do the wipe. As for the RPer ver PLer debate, I'd say get used to it as what is in this thread is nothing compared to the usual debates.

[Raekh]

So, come up with 0.5, included a full wipe.
Although the last version change was carried out with some IC plot, the eclipse, I am confident this time there wont be something like "half of Yliakums inhabitants (player chars) were killed, while the rest survived (NPCs)" - at least nearly all appropriate players on Laanx, roleplayers, will appreciate and will stick to the game.

Having played PS for more than 3 years now, I possess rare items myself, one of them actually very rare. While it would, of course, hurt me to lose it, I am more optimistical a wipe would serve a useful purpose, regarding database issues, PL-RP-server separation and cleaning of corrupted data.

As for the roleplay on Laanx, quite some posts here made me chuckle, some even shake my head. Most important, if you had roleplayed a char for a long time, nothing here could be lost. Use your idle time to level up again, be it stats or skills like cooking. And even if your char was a mighty mage - I am happy to quote Aiw saying "use your imagination". Dont get me wrong, whenever I created a char, and if it was merely for using it for some planned event, I always trained it to some degree I could justify means.
Still, such a wipe would only provide for some transition situation, and, at least the balancing known so far, obtaining BF access or maxing certain stats, required just a week of focused action.
I can understand if one would mourn about it, but in the long run I think a full wipe now would be of advantage.


EDIT:

-many dead accounts, guilds, and guild houses.

So how is this issue resolved for the future, what new mechanisms or automatisms will be implemented?

[milidh]

I agree a wipe is needed and it seems inevitable. So I say sooner rather than later, as it always make me wonder if it is worth training with a wipe over our heads. I have seen many threats of wipes over the last few years for one reason or another and will continue on regardless but still feel that I would prefer a wipe now rather than sometime in te near future.