Author Topic: Magical dialect  (Read 6550 times)

Ivniciix

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2005, 07:06:19 am »
Asheron\'s Call 1 had a verbalized magic system. The player still had to gather reagents and practice combining them to learn spells. He also had to have those components in his inventory when he wanted to cast a particular spell. When you cast a spell, you actually spoke a set of combined syllables. From \"listening\" to these syllables, another mage could discern the order of the schools to which the neccesary components belonged and gain some idea of how to combine reagents (or runes) to cast it himself.

Additonally, some components varied so as to make the publishing of spell lists and component combinations impossible. Well, not impossible but not exact either. As a spell became higher level, the number of components, their order and the quantities needed varied more and more greatly.

If you can imagine a line of 12 boxes which would be the \"learning screen\", a mage would pull components from his inventory to \"assemble\" a spell. Lower level spells might use only 6 boxes while higher ones used them all. Some spells required that a particular component be placed in more than one box. Themnage wouldthen hit the experiment key to see if he\'d created a useful combination. If he had, an icon for that spell was created in his spell book and could be placed in a hot key for combat use.

To make a system like this as open as possible, it seems you\'d mostly just have to create a list of uncombinable sequences, not actually define all the allowable spells.

So, it might be something like this:

     A  B  C  D  E  F  G  H  I  J  K  L

Where:

  A=School of magic to define the elemental forces summoned.
  B=Damage modifier
  C=Damage over time modifier
  D=Target skill of debuff
  E=Stun effect if any
  F=Hold effect if any
  G=Duration
  H=Level range. Defines a higher set of starting effects linked to I.
  I=Determines which effect (B, C, D, E or F) H moves to higher range
  J, K & L=Randomizers.

In fact, Asherons call put the randomizers first and increased the number of them as spell difficulty increased. this had the effect of forcing even more experimentation as the slots which created the effect were shifted in position. Every \'Slot\" contributed a syllable to the actual \"vocalization\" of the spell which occured when it was cast. The syllable changed depending on the actual reagent or rune which was in each slot. One of the randomizers also altered the syllable sets for every component so gold might be \"etf\" up to a certain level but became \"evu\" at higher level. Of course the system can be made even more complicated by introducing \"quality\" to the components as well.

The real trick to a system like this is not the spell creation matrix itself however but devising a system of spell animations to compliment it. I can\'t honestly recall the spell animations from Asheron\'s Call 1 but it seems for this sort of system to be really cool, there would need to be an animation matrix that more or less altered the animation based on the exact spell.

Let me clarify-One feature of a spell system like this is that there could be 20 or even more ranks of damage (or duration) for essentially the same spell. It would suck if they all had the same animation however. Not to mention that a spell that debuffed armor should look different from one that debuffs health and so on. Creating static animations for all these spells is a daunting task particularly for an open source, all-volunteer game.

What\'s needed, I think is for color to be the primary alterable animation component. Then a particular spell would have several short, linked animations and the colors of each would vary based on the spell strength etc. This could be a \"hidden\" element which was defined when the spell matrix was created. If it\'s possible to actually have animations play \"on top\" of each other, all the better.

That\'s my two cents...for now.

Neryam

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 363
  • Knight Avatar of the Guild Knights
    • View Profile
    • Dragon Peak
(No subject)
« Reply #61 on: August 30, 2005, 02:37:13 pm »
Yeah I LOVE this idea, the saying of the words or the crafting-thingy. Mabye you could use a combination, the words come from the form in which you craft it.. but the biggest hard parts to all this are:

1. Making Animations
2. Preventing people from making a \"ulberspell\" That blows up an entire mountain of enemies.
3. The code algorithims, matrices, whatevers.

Yeh I think the animations could be composed of parts that can scale and colorize, that would work quite well.. :))

As to the ulberspell, mabye there would be so many combinations that no spell is the greatest, and they are of course changed from person to person.. And mabye the more powerful the incantitation, the weaker you are the weaker the spell, and it grows weak exponentially * 2 :D
Vis vires est haud claustrum ut animus. Power is no bar to the Heart.
Guild Knights will return. When I feel like it.


Count

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
Preventing "Uber Spells"
« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2005, 04:36:09 pm »
I think for each spell there should be a possibility of failure depending on the difficulty (or power) of the spell and the skill of the caster. If a spell fails, it should have more or less nasty consequences for the caster and/or his companions, depending on how big the mistake was the caster made (the lower his skill and the more powerful the spell, the worse are the consequences). What exactly happens also should depend on the spell itself in the best case.
Off course I think, this will be a very difficult thing to implement.
Some things a spell does could just be reversed in case of failure (caster takes damage instead of enemy, or enemy is healed instead of damaged; armor is weakened instead of reinforced and so on), but with some spells it might be really difficult to find something that makes sence and can be implemented.

In this way, a magical apprentice could have the possibility to cast devastating spells, to summon a mighty demon or whatever, but his chance to succeed will be minimal (if it\'s not just 0 because of his low skill), not to mention the high chance of bad things to happen...

Maybe I will think more about these things or even do some coding as soon as I have the time.

Ivniciix

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2005, 10:42:44 pm »
Quote:
As to the ulberspell, mabye there would be so many combinations that no spell is the greatest, and they are of course changed from person to person.. And mabye the more powerful the incantitation, the weaker you are the weaker the spell, and it grows weak exponentially * 2
----------------

Well. it really just depends on how \"realistic\" a system you want. Of course the increasing number of rune (I\'ll use runes rather than reagents since PS has runes) slots required can be directly tied to advancing skill level. Players below a certain level would simply get a failure if they tried to discover too high a spell...or they might have a small chance of releasing/conjuring some aspect of the spelll which they lacked the mental capacity (skill) to properly control resulting in ????? who knows what bad effect.

In addition, there could be a set of control ranges put on spells. this would define how consistently the caster could control the spell and would of course be tied to level or perhaps familiarity (usage) of a particular school or rune. The \"green\" range would always perform as they were supposed to, the \"yellow\" range would have a varying chance of failing or backfiring and the red range would be ummm...unpredictable. What spells were in what ranges would change as the caster leveled.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 10:43:11 pm by Ivniciix »

odd2k

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #64 on: September 02, 2005, 06:42:16 pm »
Well this is extremely original and would rock if it can be pulled off.

Anyway, what about using lating for the magic dialect? This is for example what J.K.Rowling did in Harry Potter and i must say latin is one of the most versatile and more mysterious/intelligent-sounding languages on earth. In fact, thanks to the unique structure of latin you could use actual latin sentences as magic phrases and make it sound good. For example:

\"Lumos Igneus\": burning light
\"Volo Incumbo\": making yourself levitate
\"Ictus Gelu\": Bolt of frost

etc. I know this is not proper latin, but you get the point. And we could use some other fictional language if latin is not \"original enough\".

And another somewhat related idea: Spells should not be \"learned\" or \"inscribed\" automatically. instead, characters can experiment themselves with common words and combinations and inscibe these in their spellbook until they find something that works. Or they can ofcourse learn it from a friend, read the correct spell in a book or hear it from an NPC. The main point being that once you learn the correct phrase you have to manually type it into your spellbook, and each time you cast that inscribed spell you will say those exact words, and the spell will only work if it exists. And it will be inscribed even if its not correct. Kind of like how a \"real\" fantasy setting would look like.

Ivniciix

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #65 on: September 03, 2005, 10:41:56 pm »
Latin is a good base to use for a Magic Dialect. The question is do you want a succesful combination to have a preset name or one that is generated by a syllable attached to each of the components?

For the latter concept, each glyph would have a (probably) three letter \"name\" that, when combined would be the vocalization of that spell so that:

Glyph A= elu
Glyph B= ada
Glyph C= nun
Glyph D= ica

Depending upon the postion of these glyphs, one could vreate spells with the vocalizations-

Adanunicaelu
Icaeluadanun
Eluicanunada

etc.

If during character creation every character was assigned a hidden set of offsets to randomize their particular glyph order and/or glyphs, these vocalizations would be inadequate information for someone to discern the glyph order to make that spell for themselves. If we WANTED the vocalization to provide some information, then the matrix can be constructed so that perhaps the \"school\" or color of the glyph order is at least contenetd and discernable.