Author Topic: Dangers of judging who is a PLer  (Read 1415 times)

EStripus

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Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« on: November 18, 2009, 12:11:43 am »
I was concerned by a comment that was made on the IRC channels. Paraphrased: PLers won't be welcome after the wipe.  FIRST, this is not a thread for/against wipe and when it will happen. Please, refrain from starting another discussion on this.

My concern is: What is the definition of a PLer (aka Powerleveler)?

Planeshift encourages RPing. I love to RP, but leveling is important also.  I do not think that it is fair to restrict a player from leveling at whatever speed they feel is appropriate.

There are several example of how someone could be wrongly accused of PLing because they didn't RP "enough".
-A player creates a quiet/shy/distrustful character.  IE: It's in the settings that enkidukai are distrustful of strangers; many of them would remain quiet in crowded or unfamiliar situations. I know a player who plays an enki that distrusts everyone and only will talk to a few other Yliakum residents, but that personality came about from the trauma of once being open and social. That is good RPing, the character developed and changed because the player did RP realistic results of the character being hurt by other residents of Yliakum.
-A person new to PS and RPing may take some time to find their style and is going to tend toward leveling as they become familiar with the world.
-A player may log on and find that their friends or guildmates aren't online. Depending on the character's personality they may not seek out strangers to talk to, but the character may turn to their craft to find solace.
-Players who have magic merchant characters that buy and sell magic items.  (Thank goodness for these people that are willing to grind for hours to get magic items into circulation in the game.)
-Players sometimes are just mentally exhausted from RPing a lot. Sometimes it is nice to just work on leveling a much desired skill in silence.  Also some players RP while leveling: a hunting party, a quest, a solo mission based on an RP, etc.
-Players that have a vision for their character: laborers are going to work alot on crafting or gathering mats. Magic users are going to practice tirelessly to be good at their discipline. Hunters/Warriors can't be good unless they kill/fight alot.
-A pending guild war is going to drive the warrior members to train hard and earnestly, which means yes the players are going to level fighting skills as quickly as possible to reflect their characters drive to protect/defend their guild's honor. Same with magic users.

This is a game, let people have fun without being in fear of being judged a PLer.  Many true PLers leave the game when they have either topped it out or decide they are tired of being around RPers. My short 9 months in this game has taught me that the PLers and the RPers sort themselves out naturally. Anyone that RPs to some extent should be welcome, even if they do PL. A well rounded game like PS involves RPing and OOC Leveling.
-
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 12:55:28 am by EStripus »
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AldoNova

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2009, 12:52:05 am »
I was concerned by a comment that was made on the IRC channels. Paraphrased: PLers won't be welcome after the wipe.  FIRST, this is not a thread for/against wipe and when it will happen. Please, refrain from starting another discussion on this.

My concern is: What is the definition of a PLer (aka Powerleveler)?

Planeshift encourages RPing. I love to RP, but leveling is important also.  I do not think that it is fair to restrict a player from leveling at whatever speed they feel is appropriate.

There are several example of how someone could be wrongly accused of PLing because they didn't RP "enough".
-A player creates a quiet/shy/distrustful character.  IE: It's in the settings that enkidukai are distrustful of strangers; many of them would remain quiet in crowded or unfamiliar situations. I know a player who plays an enki that distrusts everyone and only will talk to a few other Yliakum residents, but that personality came about from the trauma of once being open and social. That is good RPing, the character developed and changed because the player did RP realistic results of the character being hurt by other residents of Yliakum.
-A person new to PS and RPing may take some time to find their style and is going to tend toward leveling as they become familiar with the world.
-A player may log on and find that their friends or guildmates aren't online. Depending on the character's personality they may not seek out strangers to talk to, but the character may turn to their craft to find solace.
-Players who have magic merchant characters that buy and sell magic items.  (Thank goodness for these people that are willing to grind for hours to get magic items into circulation in the game.)
-Players sometimes are just mentally exhausted from RPing a lot. Sometimes it is nice to just work on leveling a much desired skill in silence.  Also some players RP while leveling: a hunting party, a quest, a solo mission based on an RP, etc.
-Players that have a vision for their character: laborers are going to work alot on crafting or gathering mats. Magic users are going to practice tirelessly to be good at their discipline. Hunters/Warriors can't be good unless they kill/fight alot.
-A pending guild war is going to drive the warrior members to train hard and earnestly, which means yes the players are going to level fighting skills as quickly as possible to reflect their characters drive to protect/defend their guild's honor. Same with magic users.

This is a game, let people have fun without being in fear of being judged a PLer.  Many true PLers leave the game when they have either topped it out or decide they are tired of being around RPers. My short 9 months in this game has taught me that the PLers and the RPers sort themselves out naturally.  A well rounded game like PS involves RPing and OOC Leveling.
-

As for me, all of the RPers are better players or PLers are better players is just simply hogwash (sorry, no flame there). PS offers RP and it's importance is evident from the tutorial and forward. But, that said PS offers Stat building, Leveling in many skills, jobs, Combat etc.. Lastly it has 6 ways of magic. Why would anyone want to narrow the possibilities down except for their own characters and say it's for the good of the game when you know it's not for the game at all that you would use less than the game has to offer unless you make that a personal choice for your OWN character(s). PS IS RP, Stats, Leveling, Magic, Jobs, Questing, Skill Building, all of this is in part what makes it so good even in the beta stages. To narrow this down to just one of it's parts is a great injustice to PS as is some of the talk I hear of kicking the RPers to one server and the PLers to another. Why people feel the need to divide PS is beyond me, it's a great game people, all of it so use ALL of it you want and let others do the same without fear of being labeled less than a "true player. That's just silly. Let's all have fun, lets all build our characters as we see fit within the bounds of all that PS is.

weltall

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2009, 01:21:53 am »
it was easier to just ask would have saved bandwidth and time.
Your definition isn't the one of the pler but of the actual good player on laanx.
staying silent and doing the pl by yourself won't be persecuted even the best player of planeshift is someone who roleplays using the mechanics and not someone who uses only the mechanics or only the text. A middle zone then.
The problem are abusive players who abuse their levels to bully other players or just go on kill spree in the plaza, those are also the players who give most troubles to gm because innumerable players report them. Those won't be accepted anymore. Also those who don't respect ic law are part of the unaccepted group and those who ignore utterly the fact main, auction should be used for ic reasons and in case there is need like to  help someone or explain something which wouldn't make sense ic or be too complex and would end up confused ic use always brachets. Those refusing such things aren't well accepted on laanx, and most players have demonstrated the same reaction toward such people who have been plaguing the server.

bloodedIrishman

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2009, 01:40:59 am »
I second what weltall said. I would call a player who ignores or breaks the planeshift rules for behavior IC and OOC as unwelcome. Otherwise live and let live. 

Sarras Volcae

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2009, 02:35:46 am »
should be roleplayers vs nonroleplayers. what has leveling got to do with anything? everyone should be able to build stats to better roleplay their character.

similar to real life. i'm not going to go around acting tough if i'm a nerdy weakling (like most of the ps community lol). only after i know i can beat the living crap out of someone can i do that.

LigH

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2009, 02:43:29 am »
If you decide to roleplay a weapon smith and merchant, it is no powerleveling to learn crafting, but a prerequisite.

If you decide to roleplay a mage or healer, it is no powerleveling to train your magical skills, but a relation to the game mechanics.

If you decide to roleplay a warrior, it is no powerleveling to train your weapon skills and physical stats, but a credible habit.


If you decide not to roleplay, but to raise only your skills without much interaction to other players, and with the only purpose to raise them as fast as possible (like benchmarking), then it may be called powerleveling. May.


P.S.: Thank you, Sarras, you possibly meant about the same...

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bloodedIrishman

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2009, 04:10:28 am »
should be roleplayers vs nonroleplayers. what has leveling got to do with anything? everyone should be able to build stats to better roleplay their character.

similar to real life. i'm not going to go around acting tough if i'm a nerdy weakling (like most of the ps community lol). only after i know i can beat the living crap out of someone can i do that.

I've got the muscles to back up my pwnage.  8)

katu

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2009, 09:16:06 am »
Oh no! Yet another PL vs RP discussion...   :-X

Respect each others playing style!
Stay IC!
Obey the rules!

..and you are welcome on Laanx

Mythryndel

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2009, 10:58:27 am »
I agree with most of what has been said here. In general, nobody should care about how someone else is playing their character. It doesn't matter if you or I think that leveling is a waste of time, or if standing around talking to friends is a waste of time... PS is for all to enjoy who are not being belligerent (OOC) or disruptive.

To give some background on your original question about the second server...  The issue that cropped up really bad a few months ago before the EzPC server was brought online was that there was extreme intolerance on one side of this debate... and extreme indifference on the other. It got so bad that the forums were filled with thread after thread about the elitists around hydlaa and the <fill in favorite expletive here> players who had nothing better than to annoy them by carrying weapons in the tavern or simply spinning in circles, mining for platinum... or Talad forbid, asking for help with the interface to the game in the "main" tab... *gasp*!! Yes, I was annoyed by the attitudes I encountered both in-game and on the forums. When I started playing, going on two years ago, many players were very helpful and showed me around, introduced me to the "game". A few months later, I was helping out anyone who looked lost/confused and had several people who would ask me about the game. This, in my opinion, is how it should be. The GMs should only have to be bothered for major disputes or game glitches, players should be counted on to help other players. What really started to annoy me was the fact that obviously new players were being chastised publicly for asking questions or were simply ignored. There was a very elitist attitude that was prevalent concerning anyone who would bother to try to use mechanics... I'll stop here... I am sure you get the point.

   Most players were middle of the road gamers that interacted with other players IC-ly and went about training whatever skills suited them at the time. But, to be honest, there were a handful of players that specifically went out of their way to annoy the die-hard RPers and it escalated to the point the devs decided to spawn a new server. Unfortunately, the most vocal of the extremists were making the devs lives even more hectic than normal and people were getting tired of dealing with the rift between segments of the player base. They decided that two servers was the best solution with the fewest drawbacks at the time. Judging by the forum traffic, I would say things are at least marginally better now, but that may be due more to forum policy enforcement than to actual in-game changes in player attitude.

   Well, I hope this puts things in a better context for you. This is not an attempt to start, yet another, flame war about RP vs PL. Take it for what it is worth.

kaerli2

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2009, 12:22:08 pm »
I agree with most of what has been said here. In general, nobody should care about how someone else is playing their character. It doesn't matter if you or I think that leveling is a waste of time, or if standing around talking to friends is a waste of time... PS is for all to enjoy who are not being belligerent (OOC) or disruptive.

<snip>

   Most players were middle of the road gamers that interacted with other players IC-ly and went about training whatever skills suited them at the time. But, to be honest, there were a handful of players that specifically went out of their way to annoy the die-hard RPers and it escalated to the point the devs decided to spawn a new server.


Sadly, that is too true.  Most of the middle-of-the-road gamers (and even the hardcore RPers) were fine, until that handful of players started basically griefing the die-hard RPers and it started a flamewar, in my mind.

Timmothy Perriwinkle

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2009, 07:54:27 pm »
Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha.

I saw the title of the thread, and just laughed. I didn't bother reading OP or any of your comments because they've already been said before. To summarize:

tl;dr - RP is dead, PLers are obnoxious, wah, wah, I wet my undies at night because the dark is scary


[12:05am] XilliX: I <3 you that much

Ench

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2009, 10:20:06 pm »
Ench Waves to everyone,

Well I'm a player that some would call PL....  I've been hesitant to RP mostly because Im a tearable speller and a pore Typist.... it is not until recently that i have just given it a try to RP...  and it is realy fun....   and even in my PLing i did my best to respect the rules and guidelines of the game.
 to be honest I love PS.  It is not because of the game system (but i like ). it is not because of the RP (but i like).  it is because you are free to experience and explore the world as you choose  or rather as your character chooses.


Ench   ;D

perlyboy

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2009, 12:53:50 am »
Also those who don't respect ic law are part of the unaccepted group

Weltall, you know me a little longer than this... therefore this remark:

What if some characters deliberately choose to not abide the law for their own IC reasons, and face the consequences of being imprisoned or worse? [which they OOC-ly know this will happen]

I for one, think they know very well how to RP, and should be welcomed with open arms [they know very well they don't respect the Octarch's law, yet choose to break it for RP reasons..]

Your friend,

Perlan, Masters of Move

PhoenixRizin

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2009, 01:00:14 am »
I think weltall was referring to people not keeping things in character in terms of separating IC and OOC, not the IC breaking of the Octarch's law
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weltall

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Re: Dangers of judging who is a PLer
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2009, 01:07:44 am »
you are free to break the ic law but then you must respect the conseguences of it. i meant not respecting them with that sentence. it's quite annoying going picking who breaks oocly jail because the bars don't load fast enough.