Author Topic: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat  (Read 6648 times)

Maju

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« on: December 21, 2009, 01:09:04 am »
We all know that, in RL, the emotional state, the moral or spirit of a soldier or football player or a worker is important in his productivity. And we know that this emotional state (positive, negative, neutral) is strongly favored by immaterial "feed" like love and art.

I'd like this emotional state to be a stat in PS, factoring somehow all others. Guess it could work somewhat like this:
- neutral state: no change
- positive state: multiply stats by something like 1.2 (somewhat positive), 1.4 (positive) and 1.6 (very positive)
- negative state: multiply stats by maybe 0.8 (somewhat negative), 0.6 (negative), 0.4 (depressed)

"Artistic" creations (I can think of cusine and music right now but there may be others - religion?) would increase enthusiasm according to skill, while some other experiences (like the DR, for instance, or eating rotten food) would have the opposite effect. It would naturally tend, as time passes (but rather slowly), to neutral from either extreme, so the "food for the soul" would get some demand beyond mere roleplaying.

Of course, it would require careful fine-tuning, like almost everything. But imagine players crowding a concert or a restaurant, just because it makes their characters feel good (and hence be more efficient). It would give the game a real life culture and emotion feeling without being too demanding in gameplay (you can always get some good vibes from a beer or a less elaborate meal, or maybe reading at Jayose's, you only "need" that now and then, as it goes down slowly unless you die or something) and makes some RL sense, right?

And, of course, it would give demand to crafts that the devs (and in general the players) would like to see more effectively implented somehow eventually.

Give it a thought at least.

bloodedIrishman

  • Guest
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2009, 01:36:12 am »
You're talking about a temporary buff to stats. Those are coming.

Ex:) A campfire can give charisma, a piece of meat can give strength.

Sarras Volcae

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1325
    • View Profile
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2009, 06:17:07 am »
sounds too girlish. besides, what you think may make people happy or sad is not true for everyone. i'm usually annoyed by art and music. i get my happy from nommy foods, adrenaline, and sports. and i don't get depressed. also, a lot of people don't let emotions get in the way of productivity.

*shreds your idea, throws it in a bin, and sets it on fire*

:P

bloodedirishman, how does a campfire make one charismatic?? lol
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 06:19:51 am by Sarras Volcae »

BLERGHtrue

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2009, 12:02:26 pm »
Quote
how does a campfire make one charismatic?? lol

an enki, sitting by the fire under the stars, making its fur flick red with the flames - shadows lightly dancing across its face...says Dharke, trailing off in her own world

mate, being by fire ALWAYS improves the atmosphere. ALWAYS. campfires, candlelight dinners...

Maju

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2009, 03:04:59 pm »
You're talking about a temporary buff to stats. Those are coming.

Ex:) A campfire can give charisma, a piece of meat can give strength.

No. It might have somewhat similar effects but what I suggested is conceptually different.

And I agree with Sarras that a campfire should give nothing but warmth... company if there's other people around at best.

sounds too girlish.

Roleplaying IS "girlish" (i.e. theatre, art: not the typical macho thing of slash and smash). Assume it or change game.
 
Quote
besides, what you think may make people happy or sad is not true for everyone. i'm usually annoyed by art and music. i get my happy from nommy foods, adrenaline, and sports. and i don't get depressed. also, a lot of people don't let emotions get in the way of productivity.

Emotions affect productivity. I understand that it is a fact. Otherwise slavery would still exist - it was abolished largely because it was improductive, as slaves were not motivated. It's a matter of motivation: unmotivated workers or soldiers are clearly less effective, and the opposite is true of motivated ones.

However, I do agree that the concept needs fine-tuning.

I forgot to mention part of the idea: that different creation circumstances could cause a greater or smaller emotivity in the resulting character. One of these could be race (IDK, dwarves or klyros look like less emotional, while diaboli or elven types could be more instead) but there should be room for personalization in this aspect. Anyhow less emotivity would cause one to be less "moved" (affected by this modifying factor) in both senses: for good or bad (one is almost invulnerable to depression but also to high enthusiasm: his/her emotional state is "flatter")

A possibility could be that some characters would get more spirit from certain inputs (i.e. high quality food in your case) than others (music in your case). That makes total sense but I'm not sure how difficult would be to implement. In any case, would you RP such a character, you'd choose always the restaurant over the musical performance, even if technically gives you the same "hoot".

Zweitholou

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Art Department Leader
    • View Profile
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2009, 12:49:06 am »
What if emotional preferences were made part of the character creation process?  Say there is a list with various situations, and you select the pros an leave the cons.  Or choose which your character would like best, could tolerate, or would dislike.  You could always just roleplay these things, but having the mechanics back it up might make it easier to stay in character and, as previously stated, encourage evnts such as poetry recitations and arena matches, depending on characters' interests.  Perhaps also areas such as the red crystal den could be set to improve happiness for those who enjoy theater. Of course, this might lead to people going just to improve their emotion ig, not to be involved. But on the flip side, it might encourage players to attend who wouldn't regularly, and they could find themselves drawn into rps and having fun, learning from others who enjoy it.

Just my two tria.

Maju

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2009, 10:42:36 am »
What if emotional preferences were made part of the character creation process?  Say there is a list with various situations, and you select the pros an leave the cons.  Or choose which your character would like best, could tolerate, or would dislike.  You could always just roleplay these things, but having the mechanics back it up might make it easier to stay in character and, as previously stated, encourage evnts such as poetry recitations and arena matches, depending on characters' interests.  Perhaps also areas such as the red crystal den could be set to improve happiness for those who enjoy theater. Of course, this might lead to people going just to improve their emotion ig, not to be involved. But on the flip side, it might encourage players to attend who wouldn't regularly, and they could find themselves drawn into rps and having fun, learning from others who enjoy it.

Just my two tria.

That's largely my point: encourage certain RP activities FROM game mechanics, instead of just leaving them to the caprice of players alone. Game mechanics can encourage, hinder or be neutral to RP. So far they are either neutral or even contrary to the activities related to this "emotional" factor (I'd say that encouraging other activities such as hack&slash or smithing indirectly detracts from activities that game mechanics are indifferent to, such as art or cuisine). As player I see no in-game motivation to worry about anything that is not trias, stats and weapons/armor... and therefore most of the time I don't do anything about these other activities. But if these activities can influence your stats somehow, then they become truly important.

Earowo

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1463
    • View Profile
    • Guild Site
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2009, 10:55:06 am »

an enki, sitting by the fire under the stars, making its fur flick red with the flames - shadows lightly dancing across its face...says Dharke, trailing off in her own world

mate, being by fire ALWAYS improves the atmosphere. ALWAYS. campfires, candlelight dinners...

AHHHHHHH!!! MY FUR IS ON FIRE MY FUR IS ON FIRE AHHH!!!!


(is that helpin your atmosphere?)
Dohmo: Please clean up your language immediately.
Me: as i just said, what i said, fits in the guidlines of rated PG, i was just explaining to the G guy
Dohmo: Sorry I tried to e nice
Dohmo: and i'm telling you to clean it up. last warning
Dohmo: now just do it
Dohmo: No more warnings

Abuse?

EStripus

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 142
    • View Profile
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2009, 04:27:54 am »
Zasary leaps away from the fire and flaming Earowo, "Put it out! Put it out!" Weeps quietly from the shadows, "I was burned as a kit."

(yes, campfires are not fun for everyone, so stat buffs should not be applied to characters for being in certain environments.  It is godmodding to assume that environments and objects create the same feelings in all characters.  If you RP correctly, you don't need stat boosts to show a pleasant/negative reaction to the environment.)

Just a humble opinion.
Don't godmod me and we'll get along fine.

Earowo

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1463
    • View Profile
    • Guild Site
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2009, 08:35:05 pm »
ya unless i have a marshmellow campfires bore me XD
Dohmo: Please clean up your language immediately.
Me: as i just said, what i said, fits in the guidlines of rated PG, i was just explaining to the G guy
Dohmo: Sorry I tried to e nice
Dohmo: and i'm telling you to clean it up. last warning
Dohmo: now just do it
Dohmo: No more warnings

Abuse?

Maju

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2009, 02:19:23 am »
What's up with campfires? I like the dance of the fire and others may like the company they might offer... but, well, I was thinking in something feasible, not in the impossible fractality of the real world, which can't be imitated.

Mostly getting some skills that are already incorporated (or planned) to the game (but largely unused, except to make tria by most unrealistic systems) and give it a gameplay utility that matches to some extent what happens in reality. This transversal stat could even replace Dakkru's Curse and it seems to me much more easy to implement than thousands of variables for each act (like the mentioned meat effect).

But as for campfires, I really don't have any idea why they are being mentioned: they are not essentially different from a lamp or any other object, except in that they cause more lag apparently. Sure, someone might feel emotionally charged by contemplating the magnificence of the great statue (is it Laanx or Talad?, never got to discern one from the other, my characters always choose other gods) or the shine of the Crystal or the grass being blow by the wind... but it's totally away from my intent to include in this stat all possible forms of subjective exaltation, just a reasonable set of the most common ones, and specially those implemented as skills in game, what would offer a market for such artists, diversifying a bit the economy.

Maju

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2009, 02:28:58 am »
Also I'd like to suggest some fine-tunning for this:

I'd like this emotional state to be a stat in PS, factoring somehow all others. Guess it could work somewhat like this:
- neutral state: no change
- positive state: multiply stats by something like 1.2 (somewhat positive), 1.4 (positive) and 1.6 (very positive)
- negative state: multiply stats by maybe 0.8 (somewhat negative), 0.6 (negative), 0.4 (depressed)

In the negative sense it should be less intense because +50% (half more) is not the same as -50% (just half). The positive opposite of half would be more like double (because full is double than half), so the negative state should not be so harmful.

Maybe something like 0.9 - 0.8 - 0-6? Not really sure.

Sarras Volcae

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1325
    • View Profile
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2009, 05:32:41 am »
full of bull u kno nothing aboiy spavery maju

rolpelaying is also not girly nor is theater

ur ridiculois

EStripus

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 142
    • View Profile
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2009, 06:24:12 am »
@ Maju: we are using the campfire idea because it was proposed as the example of how it's presence could influence a character's mood. As Earowo, Blerghtrue, and myself have shown, no character is going to react the same way to the campfire scenario, so how can you impose a uniform stat boost to all characters.  A stat boost for emotional state, enthusiasm, and mood would be godmodding; it would be telling other people how to act or feel when placed under certain circumstances. The food is a reasonable thought about improving strength, endurance, or healing; everyone must eat to survive.

This idea of controlling characters emotions is better suited for the players on EZPCUSA. Since you are only concerned with how to improve stats [as you stated in one of your earliest posts] I don't think you have a grasp that people on the Laanx server do not like to be told how to feel or act. When stats are imposed on them based on where they go or what they are exposed to, it invades their right to RP a unique character. If my character is happy with an activity I'll RP it, I don't need someone doing a mathematical equation to tell me my character smiles while at a concert and is scared in the deathrealm [since you used Dakkru as an example in one of your posts]...besides worshippers of Dakkru would not have a negative stat for being in the presence of their goddess in the death realm.

Don't godmod me and we'll get along fine.

bloodedIrishman

  • Guest
Re: Spirit (emotional state, enthusiasm, mood) stat
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2009, 11:15:54 am »
As I said, temporary buffs are coming.

Something as complex as what's being talked about here is a long way off, even for the biggest games out there, is hard to do. Not to mention that with players in our game, who are fiercely individual and take pride on their character's uniqueness, it's far more difficult to get it right.

"Soon(tm)"  ;D