PVP outside of cities

[Eelin]

We can simple post the logs if an attempt to twist what happened is the goal here. Perhaps on another thread?

I think we can agree on that. The summary was posted here:

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37921.0

We can take this discussion there, as it seems to be a bit off-topic.

[Zytorr]

Hmmm, an incomplete summary at that.

The points that novacadian makes which caught my attention, were those of a daughter of DoX not quite becoming of a DoX daughter and that of summarily excluding some good alternatives to the scripted plot.

Much of the violence and showcasing by Sluuph, not becoming of a daughter could have had an interesting alternative. In fact Qata did cast Magic Sleep on to Ahriman (omitted from the summary). This spell is a fourth realm spell not likely to have the natural resistance of the Diaboli as some of the basic spells (read the settings.) This would have at least caused enough drowsiness so that the others could capture him and call the guards while minimizing the violence. This scenario might have preserved the following of Xiosia's ways by the daughters giving a much more settings compliant RP.

I believe points make herein and by novacadian can productively add to the quality of any PvP scenario.

Oh and Venorel, enjoy your new blessed weapons.

[Eelin]

Hmmm, an incomplete summary at that.

Perhaps the moderator will move these unrelated posts to the correct thread, where I will be quite anxious to respond.

[Sangwa]

I hope he does. No one cares about your silly disputes around here.

So there are areas where PvP exists without challenge? Hmmm. I gotta check those out.

[verden]

Camp Banished has been in there for *quite* a while.

[novacadian]

I hope he does. No one cares about your silly disputes around here.

 

The decision of the court is fully excepted by me. The trial made up for any complaint of lack of RP mentioned by me. My apologies... nuff said.


On Topic: Yes the Banished Camp and Platinum Mines are thought to be PvP areas.

- Nova

[Geoni]

Platinum Mines are thought to be PvP areas.

"Thought to be" <--keywords.

The platinum mines used to be the place where many powerlevelers gathered, their entire guild working together along with their mules for days on end in hopes of getting tons of platinum. Of course there were exceptions to the generalization. You could easily expect PvP to happen in such a place. Hence why it is "thought to be".

[Orgonwukh]

You might find these threads interesting:

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=29759.0
Corresponding feature request on flyspray:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/flyspray/index.php?do=details&task_id=2538

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34261.0

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=35249.0

These are very old posts and I think that they do not reflect the community's view nor the settings view anymore. But before you start the argument all over again, you might get some ideas and impressions there.

[Aensor]

I agree PvP open fully in the wilderness just to get more different types of RP going. I think that maybe having another PvP option in which the player can choose to allow PvP in the wilderness or in the city or whatever.

[reviving.]

I want to second this opinion, Id like to allow other players to attack me in unguarded zones - without kill confirmation and the need to challenge. At the same time i dont want autoaccept on duels since in towns im often afk or relying on the guards to protect me when moving around without weapons. Auto Accept on duels will never get a "default enabled" flair for such reasons - its just unconvenient to turn on and off every time you enter or leave a town. A general PvP-flag for such zones, maybe activated by default, could.

I read around a little bit and i didnt spot solid arguments against such an option. But maybe i missed them?

[Peacer]

I know I'm necroing this thread but I also think this should be implemented, it would add some needed substance to role playing evil.
Here's how it could be implemented:

• Players who wish to ambush others enable pvp(Aggressor)
• guards will be patrolling the main roads between cities and will attack an aggressor in combatmode

You can then add things like wanted status with rewards, good/evil points and so on.

By doing this you get both, relative safety for people who do not wish to be instagibbed or ambushed, and people who wish to create disorder and attract goody-two-shoes can do this too, you can adjust the amount of guards depending on players with history aggressive pvp behavior, there will always be 1 or 2 guards in patrol and more could spawn in case of combat to not give away if there are any of these players in the area. This way guards can be fought as well.

[Illysia]

Well, I don't know about implementing new guard NPCs, but there are open PvP areas in game now. They aren't just outside of city gates though. However there is one good place in particular for Evil/baddie players to hang out that probably doesn't get enough love, I think it still open PvP.

[Rigwyn]

So if I read this right, given this solution, all players would be vulnerable to pvp. They would need to rely on guards (and hopefully watch towers) to protect them from getting one-shotted from a very long distance or gutted up close.

I'm not sure if you were still playing when the pvp server(ezpc) was set up, Peacer. The entire server was ooc open pvp. You could say anything you wanted and just chop people down willy nilly. As I recall, it did not exactly pass the test of time and was eventually retired.

Taking the pvp side of the argument:  Yes, it would be good if as a well trained baddie, I ( and others ) could make *real* threats in game that people could not just walk away from. I could do road blocks and demand tolls for safe passage.... and not have people just walk through me like I wasn't there or say sassy things and walk away without consequence. Their options would be to fight, run away or log out if they didn't want to take the risk.

To be quite honest, if another player does not want their character to be exposed to the whims of  my character, then I would rather not force it on them. When I play the game with fellow players, I want them to enjoy it too. I don't want to be an annoying pain in their ass ( Here I'm talking about the player, not the character). If someone is willing to take the risk of exposing their character to mine, then I will not need to force action on them with the game's mechanics.

While not everyone will agree with me on this, I want to point out something about mixing live-action pvp and text based RP. If I can't type an emote or statement because I'll get chopped down at the knees while typing, then I can't RP and that really sucks. If I need to spend all my time training HA and stats so I don't get tragically impaled from behind while typing, then I don't have time to RP. That really sucks too. If I can't quest for glyphs or needed skills because to do so requires crossing a pvp zone that is lined with players who oocly know where the boundary is and just want to skewer a noob, then that kinda sucks too.

I do see the fun in live-action pvp, but I really don't think having both pvp and text rp in the same world works very well. Rearranging all the NPCs and quests so that you can train within the city walls might help (assuming pvp is off in the city), but that would take a ridiculous amount of work and would eliminate the incentive for players to step into the danger zones. That's just my perspective and opinion.

Currently I think there's three open pvp zones - Camp Banished, the Dlayo(sp?) pit, and the new Plat mine. (Maybe the arena in oja too?)  Admittedly, simply having pvp zones like these does not really open up strategic opportunities for pvp as you had described.

 ( Actually, the new plat mine did provide this opportunity and was exploited by a guild. This worked because there were elements of both risk and reward. Once plat lost it's relative value, the reward disappeared and the dynamic dissolved. It's barren now. )

[Illysia]

I'm pretty sure Peacer hasn't played since before NotLaanx server was introduced and retired. However, I almost never do PvP so this isn't really my sphere. Yet, would it work to run an event where everyone knows that open PvP is part of the story, set it either in an open pvp area or have all participants set auto accept on once in the right place, and then leave the RP mostly to before and after combatants engage each other?

You can technically leave the combat itself to mechanics, but use RP to determine who gets into combat and what happens after. If I remember correctly, you don't have to automatically kill someone at the end of a duel now. Not automatically killing should help leave room for RPing at the end of the duel and deciding where to go from there.

[Peacer]

So if I read this right, given this solution, all players would be vulnerable to pvp. They would need to rely on guards (and hopefully watch towers) to protect them from getting one-shotted from a very long distance or gutted up close.

I have no idea how the current pvp works with distance and all, but my suggestion was based on the idea that pvp would be *somewhat* balanced, if you can get one-shot the guards that are implemented should be able to stop this

I'm not sure if you were still playing when the pvp server(ezpc) was set up, Peacer. The entire server was ooc open pvp. You could say anything you wanted and just chop people down willy nilly. As I recall, it did not exactly pass the test of time and was eventually retired.

Nope I didn't play I heard the news of it opening, not the result or that it already closed though.

To be quite honest, if another player does not want their character to be exposed to the whims of  my character, then I would rather not force it on them. When I play the game with fellow players, I want them to enjoy it too. I don't want to be an annoying pain in their ass ( Here I'm talking about the player, not the character). If someone is willing to take the risk of exposing their character to mine, then I will not need to force action on them with the game's mechanics.

that is why keeping to the main road should keep you safe, straying off of it there should be the risk of people wanting to chop you down (you take risk of a shortcut but travel faster) if you have to agree on setting up events with travelling merchants that gets ambushed sorta ruins it a bit that you know it will happen, spontaneous is better since you don't expect it to happen but you know it will happen which creates a better experience.

While not everyone will agree with me on this, I want to point out something about mixing live-action pvp and text based RP. If I can't type an emote or statement because I'll get chopped down at the knees while typing, then I can't RP and that really sucks. If I need to spend all my time training HA and stats so I don't get tragically impaled from behind while typing, then I don't have time to RP. That really sucks too. If I can't quest for glyphs or needed skills because to do so requires crossing a pvp zone that is lined with players who oocly know where the boundary is and just want to skewer a noob, then that kinda sucks too.

with proper macroing you can prepare some statements, and you can create events in the client that makes your character say something pre-defined on death/near death/battle initiation.

If you get chopped down as a noob you have an opportunity to get to know new players and ask them for protection, great way to start relationships with one another.

I do see the fun in live-action pvp, but I really don't think having both pvp and text rp in the same world works very well. Rearranging all the NPCs and quests so that you can train within the city walls might help (assuming pvp is off in the city), but that would take a ridiculous amount of work and would eliminate the incentive for players to step into the danger zones. That's just my perspective and opinion.

create guards where the npcs you need to speak with are, but having danger adds some much needed risk to the game and a way to make things happen in a way that the game more intuitively supports.

Currently I think there's three open pvp zones - Camp Banished, the Dlayo(sp?) pit, and the new Plat mine. (Maybe the arena in oja too?)  Admittedly, simply having pvp zones like these does not really open up strategic opportunities for pvp as you had described.

 ( Actually, the new plat mine did provide this opportunity and was exploited by a guild. This worked because there were elements of both risk and reward. Once plat lost it's relative value, the reward disappeared and the dynamic dissolved. It's barren now. )

I think that's sad, the game need some kind of dynamics so the gameplay isn't that stale and for a way to make things happen that doesn't turn the game into a 3d chat game.

I see your points and I think they are good ones which can only make the idea better, and mold it in to a way that creates some dynamic game activity rather than chat activity.

You can technically leave the combat itself to mechanics, but use RP to determine who gets into combat and what happens after. If I remember correctly, you don't have to automatically kill someone at the end of a duel now. Not automatically killing should help leave room for RPing at the end of the duel and deciding where to go from there.

As I said before, you can add to the dynamics by having events on your character that go off on death, attack initiation, near death, adding with enemy spotted could be good too, you could implement that outlaws can steal trias from you when you lay there (spoils of war) and killing people would make you able to only get 25% of what you could get (you can just bank your tria). Guard npcs will come 5s after the outlaws leave and your character will automatically tell who it was to get them wanted (eventually bountys) if the character got killed guards could see the blood and determine that it was a brown stonebreaker (or whatever race) in the group of attackers

[Eonwind]

Like Rigwyn said there are PvP areas where no challenge acceptance is required, this allow the players to choose whether they want to take the risk of being attacked or not. One is especially made for challenges (the arena), another is meant to be an outlaw area (camp banished) that support some line of quests as well (so most probably many newbies will ends up here anyway) there are also very challenging NPCs here; the last is a resource area (platinum is the highest priced metal and an essential ingredient to make platinum steel weapons [yes, weapons: platinum steel longswords are no more the only craftable plat steel weapons]).
At last I must mention some mobs (depending on theiur race and ecology) are aggressive by default in the wilderness area, and some of the hunting zones include mines like gold mine and such. This is to encourage the gathering of player to defend and protect the miners. As of now a good deal of mobs are aggressive and will attack, they no more stay idling until they're hit (unless they belongs to a not aggressive race).
We have also tribes, some of them gets particularly aggressive when someone step into their tribe home.