Author Topic: Players need more rights.  (Read 8870 times)

Phage

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2010, 09:10:21 pm »
1) One day you'll understand why I trolled so hard well before leaving ;)
 
I know exactly why you trolled so hard in the past. First it was because you thought all that kissing of rears you did would keep you in good graces enough to where you could do whatever you want and get away with it. Then, you trolled because you found out otherwise. :P Knowing that you would be inclined to go down this path is why called you out on the brownnosing early on. ;)

Nope, still not got it.
First sucking up to Talad to be accepted as a prospect, followed by continuous brown-nosing due to the NDA although already disliking the project, finally ranting as predicted, and now starting over at that other place - was honestly amused having read this:

Quote from: Xoel aka ChuckiSpux
Oh UtMoon, how I loathe, hate and absolutely adore you at the same time ;)
See you on CotH!xD
Over there, lurking from safe distance.

Illysia

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2010, 05:51:05 pm »
1) The sucking up is referring to actions after being accepted as a prospect. ;)

2) Being a devil's advocate doesn't leave hickeys. :detective: All lot of times you weren't really advocating you were just being an arrogant pest in IRC. People will accept you being fully convinced of the greatness and success of the project. People were less forgiving of the "I can do anything I want because I have Talad's backing" attitude. You always made sure to praise, at every opportunity, certain people and were rude to everyone else... That is the "brown nosing" of which I speak. Let us just remember this log here for an example of one of your finer moments(although not the worst example, I admit). it's this behavior that made the treatment of devs stand out as brown nosing. You never talked like this if you knew one of them was watching.

Also, to say you to got what you want, you seem to sound like a lot of the dissatisfied oldbies that lurk around... although with more trolling. Worse yet, I'm also pretty sure that you used to deny all possibility of ever getting to this point. You even criticized Lhaa for not just leaving but making multiple accounts just to troll and complain. In your own words, and I quote, "He makes an ass of himself just for being around." It was even quoted along with my response in the QDB here. I truly wish I could link to the logs of that discussion but I lost them when my computer went down. :( C'est la vie.

For a fact there are plenty of things to complain about with this project. But I'm afraid I have to point this stuff out considering the big talk out of you from before you had your falling out with PS. It was all completely unnecessary.

4) Not really as I avoided thinking I was somebody more special than the rest of the player base 'cause I worked with the Devs. ;) I contributed for a long time and at times was aware of things that devs worked on that were still hush hush for the general playerbase. However, I didn't go parading this around like you liked to do.

My path to trying to support what I thought were the ideals of the game was this:
  •   trying to just start up little RPs
  •   trying to form continuous RPs
  •   trying to start RPs for others
  •   trying to participate in events
  •   trying to hold events
  •   trying to help newbies acclimate
  •   trying to contribute to in game resources
  •   trying to support the devs
  •   trying to run a player area with a service orientation
  •   trying to form a safe, neutral ground for all RPer levels to comfortably RP in
  •   trying to keep two player areas running to preserve player opportunities and standardized RP environment
  •   trying an RP stimulus plan that showed that RP was limited to the models and fully implemented mechanics in game, but that some research and imagination could go a long way.
  •   trying to help support new PS team initiatives for striking up new opportunities
  •   trying to explain to Talad the need to not focus on bells and whistles but on RP to shore up the game
  •   forming a group to aid the team by working out solutions to problems that the team didn't have time to do.
  •   getting tired of being stretched entirely too thin and getting blown off if I wasn't nodding my head and running off make another faltering plan work
  •   Total Burnout....
  •   leaving the game with a final outline of what was wrong with the game and how to fix it.

Despite the burnout and the initial bitterness. I think I've been pretty reasonable about it. I make criticisms but rarely outright troll. And although I think the game is being run into the ground due to hardheadedness and incompetence, I don't actually hate the game or wish that the project would fail. If the people directing the game got the game into better shape, I would give due respect but I find that more than unlikely...

Illysia

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2010, 05:46:10 am »
That would apply if you didn't make a rear end of yourself period when people who could boot you were around. you weren't that careful. ;)

Illysia

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2010, 05:49:08 am »
I wish I could disagree with this but I can't.... :-[

Elkarway

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2010, 06:19:37 am »
First thing, I talked to Xoel twice on IRC and this is probably the first time I've ever agreed with Illysia

Second, one of PlaneShift's biggest problems has always been complete division between GMs/Devs and players (On that note, another problem was Devs suddenly becoming GMs just because they were Devs, kind of belittles the GMs).  As with almost any "team" they should show a united front, I'm completely alright with that.  But that doesn't mean they should constantly (and I do mean constantly) be ignoring player complaints about GMs.  And the GM lead has always been too close to the team.  It is a problem.  The GM leader should be a leader in every respect, and that includes being brave enough to make a few GMs like him less in order to stand up for the players and deal with poor GMing.

But the Devs/GMs have always been something of a cliq withing PlaneShift (and many other games).  I don't see this changing.

Also, players need to realize that it's okay to speak out against GMs and Devs.  You should definitely do it in the correct channels (if said channels are at all useful and responsive) but, it's not like you are betraying the game by calling out a GM on his or her mistake.  If anything you are helping the game.  PS isn't perfect, neither are her GMs or Devs.

bloodedIrishman

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2010, 04:14:32 pm »
Yup.

RlyDontKnow

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2010, 05:22:23 pm »
Second, one of PlaneShift's biggest problems has always been complete division between GMs/Devs and players (On that note, another problem was Devs suddenly becoming GMs just because they were Devs, kind of belittles the GMs). As with almost any "team" they should show a united front, I'm completely alright with that.

Devs don't just become GMs like that - especially not just because they're devs. if you're a dev and want to join the GM team as well, you still have to go through the very same process as everyone else...

also honestly... GMs and Devs aren't the same. their areas of work are different in so many ways and they're really anything else than one "clique" ;)

But that doesn't mean they should constantly (and I do mean constantly) be ignoring player complaints about GMs.

again something I cannot confirm. I barerly had issues with GMs in the past, but if I had any, it always got sorted out without big issues and drama on all kinds of platforms. (that's during the 3 years playing just normally as I still do *doesn't want to have a special account on a server he plays on*)

Also, players need to realize that it's okay to speak out against GMs and Devs.  You should definitely do it in the correct channels (if said channels are at all useful and responsive) but, it's not like you are betraying the game by calling out a GM on his or her mistake.  If anything you are helping the game.  PS isn't perfect, neither are her GMs or Devs.

perfectly agreed upon. maybe that's because I never had as much drama... you just have to know *where* and *how* to complain.
as pretty much everywhere, you won't get much attention except a kick/ban with a "xyz is stupid!", "I'm always right!!1111", "unban me!11" (figuratively speaking and exaggerating, but I suppose you get the point)

Criticise a dev (I can think of one big name starting with T) and BAM! Community ban! Most of them aren't too bad, but criticise the leader in ANY way and you have no chance of retaining your forum name, game account, or IRC access.

can't agree on that, I do it more than often enough :P

Complaining about a GM's conduct to higher-ups gets NOTHING done. In fact, arguing with a GM is cause for a (game client) ban. There is a specific rule on this forum against speaking out against GMs.

arguing isn't, but note *arguing*. and it does get something done from personal experience from the past (see above)
as for the rule... I guess it's been said often enough why this perfectly makes sense, just try to read it and stop acting dumb.

The devs have a specific rule preventing them from speaking out against each other around players (and doing so behind closed doors gets you thrown through the doors). You're free to complain about changes to the game made by devs, that's about it. If you call anyone out here on their mistakes they get defensive, on both sides of the community.

I really don't know where you got that from, there's absolutely no such rule.

just my 2 cents,
RlyDontKnow

bloodedIrishman

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2010, 03:37:04 am »
Xoel, the ironic things you say never cease to amuse me.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 03:41:23 am by bloodedIrishman »

lilura

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2010, 03:49:00 am »
Quote from: bloodedIrishman
I'm right here ladies...right here. For all you sexxaaay laddaaaayyys.

who would be interested in a fat menki?

Monala arches a brow. "Wait, so eatin' is like..." she shakes her head. "Er, nevermind."
[1: gossip] Monala: Lilu's piesexual.

bloodedIrishman

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2010, 03:51:32 am »
Quote from: bloodedIrishman
I'm right here ladies...right here. For all you sexxaaay laddaaaayyys.

who would be interested in a fat menki?

For some reason people think Kull is fat because he "hoists" himself onto his rivnak. If he were, he would still be a seductive furball.   ;D

Phage

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2010, 03:55:03 am »
I hope everyone's listening carefully when Xoel's dropping them ultimate wisdoms here! \\o//
Over there, lurking from safe distance.

Illysia

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2010, 04:10:00 am »
As talad said in an interview many moons ago, he had that license to avoid the problems other open souce projects have faced. The problem in this regard is trying to run an open source, volunteer based project like a commercial one.

Geoni

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2010, 05:17:59 am »
The title of this thread still gives me the giggles. This is an open source game that is in alpha. Do you think they will really give players more rights than the little they have? What it really ends up being is competence of RP [many players] vs. incompetence of RP [much of PS' team]


-sig by sarras

weltall

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2010, 06:12:30 am »
yes he can change license but that goes only for new code. if you knew gpl you would know you can fork from the last gpled version (just look at oracle who is trying to close everything from sun: they just get the project forked) Actually it's the normality of an organization owning the gpl code or it's a mess. FSF, Oracle (sun),  and so on...
It's quite fair that you can't speak about other members private life... who gives you the right ?
Plus i see you still don't respect other people who will get in trouble thanks to you.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 06:19:45 am by weltall »

Sen

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Re: Players need more rights.
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2010, 12:56:25 pm »
 /topic Forum users need more ignore functions

Phew, I think with that Im amoung the top 5 constructive posts in this thread  :thumbup:
.....also a saddle that won't pinch the tail. One day!