Author Topic: The Extinction of a Race  (Read 17545 times)

Talad

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2011, 06:38:08 am »

You're always talking about the players helping develop the game too. I really doubt you asked all the devs what were their viewpoints on this, because they would have said no, assuming they are smart enough.


The change was agreed between the devs, we are discussing it since some time. For your other comments, please try to provide your point of view without trolling.

Eelin

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2011, 06:40:25 am »
I certainly didn't come back to take up this fight. I had no idea it was even on the table until some friends whispered me "Hey Eelin! You can't be here...you're extinct" (I paraphrase). The logic behind this, as I interpret it, is that the devs don't wish to devote scarce resources into developing the models or the history/lore of the Diaboli.

Talad,
Consider the possibility that perhaps you are looking for a solution where one is not needed. I would suggest that you need do nothing at all to keep the players and the devs happy. We have our history and lore. We created it from what you gave us. We have our characters, fine-tuned around the backstory we were given. Many have worked countless hours skilling up those characters in an environment that is still not very condusive to it, and still under development. Every Diaboli character that I know tries very hard to RP within the framework you gave us....good or bad, we try because you said that's who we are. So, that's who we became. And whether we play twice a year or everyday, our Diaboli characters have made an impact in this world, and we have strong RP relationships based on that, just as every other race in Yliakum.

So please, consider doing nothing. Don't build the models...don't write any more history. We can do fine on our own. That's the magnificence and brilliance of it. You gave us the tools but we, the players, make this world what it is. Taking away who we are, especially on an RP server, is a death sentence to our characters, and there are many many more than myself who shouldn't have to start over.

If you are so deaf to the voices of your players, and intent on making this change, maybe you could implement this change on the EZPCUSA server, where the impact would be far less.
Qata says: Eelin, you know not of what you speek

weltall

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2011, 07:02:07 am »
@ mishka this was decided half a year ago so it's not so recent as you might think.
and to the others then why one of the major complains about ps is that we have too many races? another thing to factor is that incomplete races leave a stigma of an half baked game to whoever is starting to play the game.
Also the races won't be entirely removed from the lore but put in a frozen status. As they probably would have emigrated somewhere else. This means they would be able to come back in  future if they get developed.
The only way to avoid this is being able to make them actually be there in the game, right now they aren't and players get a nice "there isn't a model for this race" which just leaves the half baked taste.
As for the male/female that's not a good example because here we have a full race missing any decent development not just a model missing which is the case of a missing female model.

Sarras Volcae

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2011, 07:13:30 am »
 ???

well... this makes me feel a little sad.

MishkaL1138

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2011, 07:21:06 am »
@ mishka this was decided half a year ago so it's not so recent as you might think.
and to the others then why one of the major complains about ps is that we have too many races? another thing to factor is that incomplete races leave a stigma of an half baked game to whoever is starting to play the game.
Also the races won't be entirely removed from the lore but put in a frozen status. As they probably would have emigrated somewhere else. This means they would be able to come back in  future if they get developed.
The only way to avoid this is being able to make them actually be there in the game, right now they aren't and players get a nice "there isn't a model for this race" which just leaves the half baked taste.
As for the male/female that's not a good example because here we have a full race missing any decent development not just a model missing which is the case of a missing female model.

I will take weltall's explanation, for now because it is the most reasonable.

The change was agreed between the devs, we are discussing it since some time. For your other comments, please try to provide your point of view without trolling.

I don't care whether you're the projects director or whatever. I wouldn't even care if you were the Pope: I won't tolerate your rudeness. I don't allow you to call me a troll just because you didn't have a better argument. If we started to look for flaws I assure you I could find much more in you than in me, and I have quite a lot. Respect the players and they'll respect you, Talad. Last warning.

"It's all fun and games until someone stabs someone else in the eye."

sashia_mennar

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2011, 07:21:57 am »
Use the same Ynnwn model for the Diaboli, just make their skin color darker.
Lotsa love, everyone!

MishkaL1138

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2011, 07:24:47 am »
Use the same Ynnwn model for the Diaboli, just make their skin color darker.

This ^^^^^ is the most brilliant idea I've read in this thread.

"It's all fun and games until someone stabs someone else in the eye."

weltall

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2011, 07:29:55 am »
that's good as an ynnwn trait not as a model race

sashia_mennar

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2011, 07:37:52 am »
Quote
... the diaboli looks very similar to the Ynnwn race ...
(C) Talad.

Perfect. Use it instead of abusing it. One model would suit two similar-looking races just nicely. Some are Ynnwns with lighter skin, some others are Diaboli, and they're darker than their half-breed offspring.

The KISS principle always pays back. Really.


Lotsa love, everyone!

Tzarhunt

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2011, 08:52:04 am »
Well well well...
I guess it's our fault for not all being art-devs ready to join the team?

Whatever, if you're looking for me you'll find me on Guildwars.

jenideandre

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2011, 09:27:41 am »
But you guys - every time the game is upgraded there are gains and losses for those of us who have been playing for years - that's what always happens.  Some of the losses are quite painful.  When all the levels changed, those of us who were maxed/expert fighters or mages suddenly became weaklings.  What did we do?  Most of us trained again to get stronger.  I toned down my rhetoric in the tavern and when meeting people, so that I wasn't rping a strong fighting Nolthrir while being quite weak.  My backstory is skeletal, so I didn't need to change it, but it can be done.

I agree that it is harder to rp a race change than a sudden drop in all stats, but we're going to have to deal with this kind of stuff as we play.  And it can be done.  I suggest a distasteful discovery about an affair of a parent, or a realization of a mixed-blood union further up the family tree.  In any case, besides the fact that the name diaboli is awesome and so is the oily black skin, anyone with imagination can run with anything that happens as the devs advance the game.

I would say the same thing if it were my race being made non-playable.  Anyone who pays attention to the numbers - how many of us are playing these days - should applaud the devs for doing whatever it takes to speed up the upgrades.  It's obvious they are trying to make the game better faster.  That's what will bring the people here to play.

If you don't like it, and you leave, then that's ok.  Probably there should be more transparency.  But I promise, this sort of thing will happen to us as testers since the game is in development.  I also promise that devs do listen to what people say in the forum - not to all of the things, but to many things.  I know because I've read buckets of old threads, and I see how the game has changed in the past years.  We are really treated like a testable player base, and the game modifications reflect this (two servers, banking, stronger emphasis on rp on the rp server just with the daily messages and others I don't remember but can dig up).

I'm not saying this to kiss up to the game admins, I have trouble often with gms and haven't liked some things I've heard around.  But I think they are doing what needs to be done to make the game better and have broader appeal.  By doing what Talad and weltall have said - pruning races to increase efficiency.  I guess they also know how many play which race and many other statistics which allow them to choose which race will least affect the player base by being eliminated.

Don't troll or hate.  Talk and reason, and even if it is not clear at the moment, I am telling you, opinions are taken on board as anyone who attends to the forum carefully knows.   :love:

« Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 09:40:33 am by jenideandre »

Talad

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2011, 09:44:28 am »

I don't care whether you're the projects director or whatever. I wouldn't even care if you were the Pope: I won't tolerate your rudeness. I don't allow you to call me a troll just because you didn't have a better argument. If we started to look for flaws I assure you I could find much more in you than in me, and I have quite a lot. Respect the players and they'll respect you, Talad. Last warning.

Seems we have a problem here, let's take this offline.

BoevenF

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2011, 10:29:32 am »
Tantrums are useless and mostly illogical. The game itself is so good due to RP that a fair number of players forget that we are comparable to testers, with the notable exception that few people use extensively the bug tracker. But the game is deadly boring at the moment without RP. From a developer point of view really interesting, but boring. Plus, settings are actually a mystery for the common player.
Nevertheless the dev's reason it's the ultimate reason. We could argue on the methods, but that's all.

...Hey, this could bring the ever abused RP possession to the next level. Talad's Curse moved Diaboli race into the Netherworld, Gods know why. Only half-breeds can summon their essence, sharing their bodies, a special tool like a glowing Ring of Possession tells others if the Diaboli is... in da house.


Bonifarzia

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2011, 10:52:49 am »
@ mishka this was decided half a year ago so it's not so recent as you might think.

Now I really wonder how much work has been put into this on the settings side during these six months.
This seems the one and only understandable reason to stubbornly stick to such a decision.

and to the others then why one of the major complains about ps is that we have too many races? another thing to factor is that incomplete races leave a stigma of an half baked game to whoever is starting to play the game.
Also the races won't be entirely removed from the lore but put in a frozen status. As they probably would have emigrated somewhere else. This means they would be able to come back in  future if they get developed.
The only way to avoid this is being able to make them actually be there in the game, right now they aren't and players get a nice "there isn't a model for this race" which just leaves the half baked taste.
As for the male/female that's not a good example because here we have a full race missing any decent development not just a model missing which is the case of a missing female model.

If you are concerned about this taste of half baked features, then why don't you simply remove the Diaboli race from the character creation panel for now?
There have always been privileges for "older" characters, so why not simply allow them to be played as the Diaboli they have always been?
Again, this highly depends on work that has already been done in the settings department in the meanwhile.

I am not perfectly convinced that this decision is truly irreversible.
Nor that there are benefits that outweigh the rupture it creates.

Catlemur

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Re: The Extinction of a Race
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2011, 11:38:07 am »
I voted against the removal but seriously people just chill.The devs will not remove the race forever it will be restored after some time.Noone forbid you to RP as a Diaboli.The point is:lets help the game getting developed.You do not need to have 10 years of C++ experience just advertise the game.The sooner the game is finished,the sooner we will see Diaboli back.Or you can insult everyone and ragequit from the game.